Topic: Suggestions?

[MrBad151]

"Whatever items gives a chance to revive as (whatever) should give +1 skeletal mastery to boost the life of the revive, and ghosts would be better than zombies because we have to be quick-footed  (zombies fall behind and 'evaporate' very quickly)."

I've used a ring that has revive slain as returned and they held up quite well.  They usually either expired or evaporated before they were distroyed, so I don't think skeletal mastery is needed.  And while Ghosts would "work" better for quick-footed Zons, zombies make more since for the set, since Bloodraven would raise zombies from graves.  In heavily populated areas (most areas in Hell lvl) it isn't hard to get 3-5 revived walking around (w/ 10% chance to revive).

The skill shouldn't be too powerful, the rest of the set is already fairly powerful, so you don't want people running around with 10 ghosts.  Having zombies evaporate fairly often would keep the skill balanced, while adding an interesting and useful ability to the set.

[bdpf]

@webwalker

The +8 was for regular d2 old, I think sorry.

@bdpf to get the game to /players 8 is impossible.  The game starts at /players 13 (12 + you) and can get tougher to /players 20 (12 + 8 people including you).  Easy to do from inside the game before you leave camp/town.

How would you do this in the camp?

I have no hard copy of any info / readme, etc. (NO PRINT) (bad memory, TOO)

@jewl drop rate,,,, STILL TOO LOW.
By the time you get your guy to good possiable jewel drop area, your pushing to go on, not do repeats of area.
I refering to SP here...

The lack of rare / blue jewels earily in SP game, ah ah  ah, you get the drift I hope..
Just makes hard for SP players.

This is from the veiw point of an old, jadded Diablo, Diablo II, D2 LOD, Diablo II Mod, and Now D2 LOD CE mod player.
Both on and off line. THIS IS NOT A bitch,,,,,,, Spent hours / day as D2 lod player on b-net, open and closed.

Just a statement. This is the best all around mod of d2 that I have ever played.
Miss the on-line part, no dsl, #@^%$$!&*, poor kb rate on dial-up for over seas. <DARN>

bdpf
Postet at: December 14, 2005, 06:52:37 pm@MrBad151

I run zons and sorc mostly,
1st inventory;
Switching between straff and molti-shot, on right hand button of mouse, as situation demands.
Using the cold dmg arrows on the left. Switdhing to imodulation arrow / guided arrow, on the right.
2nd inventory;
Throwing spear / javalin, with rune words / green set.
With the best lighting & possin skills, both left and right, switching only to jab & fend when possin & sparks not working.

I sujest we let the Blood Raven set be for awhile, and maybe make changes to it in the update after the next if needed.<grin>
This will let more poeple use it and think of needed changes or tweaks.

Personelly, I beleive that  a good portion of the midle to upper level sets could allow for use of goolom, valkarie, etc, that would reflect the level of the charactor wearing the set.   Not fixed to a low level.  Of coarse CE and the others might not be able to code it in to the mod. The limits to what they can do inside the game is a bummer. It is a sad state that Blizzard will not release and other expansion of the game, or allow CE the right to expand the game. I know this treads the thin line of being legal CE.

Darn I really of topic, sorry. I shut-up now.

tks to ya all

bdpf

[MrBad151]

When you enter the game type /players 15   or what ever you want to set the xp lvl to.

I only play single player as well, and while there are times rare charms/jewels are few and far between, there are other times I get several in a short amount of time.  As for blue jewels they drop fairly often for me.. I'd say 2-3 per area i.e. plains of dispare, flayer jungle, etc..

[bdpf]

Thks MrBad151

I have forgotten so much. <smile> or never knew. <grin>

Jewel drops are still too thin....

Now if Ce really wanted to make an interesting change,

A single drop of an exprence  gaining Item, in one game out of 5 or 10.

Some form of arrmor of any type or level, not a shield or weapon,
 that would give double or tripple digit exprence gain.

Can you imagine how some players would look for such an item.
Oils then could be used to increase its def, fortatude, etc,

Its a old dream, that CE will not like. Probably throw the game out of balance for on-line play. <sad>

Thks for the help.
bdpf

BIG PS @ CE 

Could you make the torchs give more light?   [darn spell checker brain not working]

Not gold, just light!
thks CE for the great mod
again bdpf

[webwalker]

Lighting from devices is limited with a "light radius".  There are items that boost your "light radius", but anything that amounts to more than +13 to light radius is wasted, the game engine doesn't show more.

Now, a potion of infravision that turns darkened areas (including from the other assassin casting Cloak of Shadows) into daylight, would be worthwhile!

But... torches should increase the rate of monsters coming to you, like Confusion does, and getting mobbed might not always be what you want!

[MrBad151]

"I sujest we let the Blood Raven set be for awhile, and maybe make changes to it in the update after the next if needed.<grin>
This will let more poeple use it and think of needed changes or tweaks."

I'm not quite sure you'd want to wait to make changes, unless ofcourse the next update is coming out tomorrow <wink>.  Now would seem to be the time to make suggestions so they can be put into the next update and see how they work out.  I'm not suggesting huge overpowering changes to the set, only replacing a unless skill with something a bit more useful.

Spending 560 mana on a fire golem only to have him killed by the first pygmy with a bit knife is what I call rather useless.  When I first saw the set I thought to myself "oh wow! lvl 40 fire golem!! that will be so cool to have!"  That excitement lasted about as long as my first fire golem did.. 10 seconds!

Bloodraven's Legecy is a "hell" lvl set, considering you have to be atleast 85 to complete it.  Taking that plus the fact its a SIX piece set, it should be both powerful and useful, since you don't have a lot of other open spots to fill in to make up for weaknesses in the set.  Also take into consideration that all the armor pieces at pre-socketed with 1 socket.. so the set needs to provide things necessary to survive in "hell" lvl since you won't be able to add much via runes or jewels.

Bloodravens Remainings
Matriarchal Bow
Two-Hand Damage: 20 - 47
Required Dexterity: 187
Level Required: 80
3 to Amazon Skill Levels
3 to Bow & Crossbow (Amazon only)
60% Increased Attack Speed
400% Enhanced Damage
4 to Maximum Damage (Based on Character Level)
100 magic damage
Color on char: Light Yellow
Color in inventory: Light Yellow
4 Setitems
10 to Immolation Arrow (Amazon only)


   Bloodravens Ironmask
Spired Helm
Defense: 46 - 64
Durability: 40
Required Strength: 192
Level Required: 85
200% Enhanced Defense
All Resistances 20%
30 To All Attributes
Requirements -50%
Socked (1)
Indestructible
Color on char: Light Yellow
Color in inventory: Light Yellow
2 Setitems
20% Increased Attack Speed
3 Setitems
90 to Life
4 Setitems
90 to Mana
5 Setitems
1 to Dexterity (Based on Character Level)


   Bloodravens Shroud
Wire Fleece
Defense: 150 - 192
Durability: 32
Required Strength: 111
Level Required: 85
400% Enhanced Defense
30 to Dexterity
30 to Strength
90 to Life
Socked (1)
Indestructible
Color on char: Light Yellow
Color in inventory: Light Yellow
2 Setitems
1 to Passive & Magic (Amazon only)
3 Setitems
90 to Life
4 Setitems
20 to Strength
5 Setitems
1.5 to Dexterity (Based on Character Level)


   Bloodravens Loincloth
Vampirefang Belt
Defense: 22 - 25
Durability: 14
Required Strength: 50
Level Required: 85
200% Enhanced Defense
30 to Dexterity
30 to Strength
10% Mana stolen per hit
10% Life stolen per hit
Socked (1)
Indestructible
Color on char: Light Yellow
Color in inventory: Light Yellow
2 Setitems
10% Mana stolen per hit
3 Setitems
10% Life stolen per hit
4 Setitems
All Resistances 20%
5 Setitems
2 to Life (Based on Character Level)


   Bloodravens Gloves
Armcover
Defense: 22 - 26
Durability: 75
Required Strength: 84
Level Required: 80
200% Enhanced Defense
20% Increased Attack Speed
Knockback
2 to Bow & Crossbow (Amazon only)
20 to Dexterity
10% Life stolen per hit
10% Mana stolen per hit
Indestructible
Color on char: Light Yellow
Color in inventory: Light Yellow
2 Setitems
20 to Dexterity
3 Setitems
50 to Mana
4 Setitems
5% Chance to cast Level 30 Enchant on striking
5 Setitems
10% Chance to cast Level 30 Fists of Fire on attack


   Bloodravens Cryptboots
Scarabshell Boots
Defense: 22 - 26
Damage: 60 - 110
Durability: 14
Required Strength: 91
Level Required: 80
400% Enhanced Defense
20 to Dexterity
100% Faster Run/Walk
50% Faster Hit Recovery
Maximum Stamina 100
Cannot be Frozen
Color on char: Light Yellow
Color in inventory: Light Yellow
2 Setitems
All Resistances 20%
3 Setitems
40% Faster Run/Walk
4 Setitems
90 to Life
5 Setitems
Maximum Resist Fire 25%


   Setbonus
2 Setitems
40% Increased Attack Speed
3 Setitems
20% Increased Maximum Mana
4 Setitems
Regenerate Mana 25%
5 Setitems
Resist Fire 100%
Full Set
4 to Amazon Skill Levels
10 to Bow & Crossbow (Amazon only)
2000 Fire Damage
25% Chance to cast Level 10 Hydra when struck
100% Chance to cast Level 50 Meteor when you Die
40 to Fire Golem
-50% to Enemy Fire Resistance

As you can see the set does a good job of providing Life, mana, and resists, it also dishes out good physical damage with lots of IAS, and does lots of fire damage via +2000 fire damage and the +7 to Immolation arrow (although the web page says +10, in game it shows +7)

My problem with the lvl 40 fire golem is two fold. One, the first golem only lasts 30 seconds at best in hell lvl, and two, it doesn't make sense as a "bloodraven" ability.  Bloodraven didn't summon fire golems, she summoned zombies!

Personally I'd change the Meteor to First from Heaven, since that's what happens to bloodraven when she dies (although many who play HC couldn't really care less about either <grin>)

Enchant add 167 pts of damge to each arrow plus increasing attack, first of fire does additional 441 pts of fire damage.  While enchant is nice for a bit of extra damage and attack per arrow, first of fire is rather unimpressive consider I'm not even sure it ever goes off since you can't see it.  While I'm sure it does, I think the set would be better served with a different ability.  Webwalker suggested perhaps Static field.  Although I have my reservation about Static field as it might make the set TOO POWERFUL.  I was thinking maybe lvl 30 Chain lightning.. it would be both visually impressive as well as adding a new element damage to the set.  Fists of the heaven might also work, doing a bit of lightning damage and sending off holy bolts to heal your merc and valkyrie.

I use sets and uniques almost exclusively for all of my characters, as I like items with themes, even though I could get more powerful items with rares that have been tempered with rune words.  When you consider how powerful items with rune words and then tempered are... perhaps the rewards of completing a set should be just a signifigant.

Edit:
For Chaos!  I just checked the Teddy on my 93 Amazon that is using the bloodraven set.. it shows that she has attacked 7 monsters.  So my question is.. Fists of Fire casts on ATTACK... my teddy only shows 7 monsters ever being attacked.  If these two are checking the same thing then fists of fire isn't ever being cast and it would be another useless skill..

[webwalker]

There are quite a few Upper End Sets that might benefit from tweaking their overall effect.

For BloodRaven, I'd agree to change Fire Golem to Blood Golem, Clay Golem, or leave it Fire Golem.  A point in Golem Mastery and Summon Resist is the important thing for use in Hell.  I haven't seen these come up on the Puppenkeist, nor on charms, nor as o-skills, so they should be considered for the set.

Slain return as Zombies is (in my experience) of marginal use, +1 to Revive would be much more effective (assuming the point in Summon Resist).

Putting 1 socket in set items (to make them un-socket-able) and making them indestructible (so they can't be made ethereal) are two binds upon the set that merit reconsideration: Perhaps Chaos can grep through the database and determine how many upper-end Zons wear the BloodRaven set?  If none wear it, then it probably isn't over-powered.

The benefit of Enchant on striking is more the AR boost than the fire damage.  If you want fire damage, get a big-physical-damage set of equipment (like B.R.), and max FireArrow, the level 1 skill, which will convert 50+% of your 20+K physical damage to fire damage.  Cold Arrow (level 6 skill) can convert  your enormous physical damage to cold damage.  Magic Arrow, likewise, to magical damage.  Lightning and poison is your remaining weakness.  +1 to Enchant would be superior to level x enchant on striking IMHO since you could then enchant your Zombies, Merc, and yourself.

AIUI, "Fists of Fire" is a melee-only attack form (like Zeal... Zeal on a bow is a big tease) and (IIRC) the teddy only tracks melee attacks.  "Fist of the Heaves" on attack or strike would be far better than "Fists of Fire" since it's a BloodRaven-like manifestation, and it would do lightning damage to your target (especially if you get +1 to lightning mastery as a 4 item set bonus), leaving poison damage as your last weakness.

I'd like to see the belt do what a tempered rare belt can do: +2 skills, damage reduction, and poison damage.

MrBad151 makes a valid point: "Mumble when you die" attributes are another cruel tease to us HardCore players.
IMHO so are "increases near Mumble" affixes since we can't tell what we're doing while underground.  Half the max effect (i.e. average) being in effect all the time would be far more interesting.

[bdpf]

@Webwalker
The infered potuion would be nice, <grin> But it's graphics could be a red torch instead of a pot.
Be easirer to find, not sold, just a drop. <SMILE>

Being mobed helps get exprence. <GRIN>  If you live, which I try to do.  I hate it when butcher runs amok.

I think it would be nicer as a torch, if possible. CE will decide, of coarse. <grin>
I try to train my rouges to be killers and equip them better than my zon. My vikes tend to be blood thristy, too.
A  normal act one rougue gets nasty in Hell. Nastier now that they can use more equipment. <Big Nasty SMILE>
What can I say, I like nasty little girls. I tend to keep my rogues through all levels, to the end.

@MrBad151

I see you have put a lot of thought into your reasons, what ever secondary skill is added it sould
be strong enought to last more than 30 sec. and be able to kill or defend in hell.

I see that you don't list the bow as being socketed. Wish I had a hard copy of the set.. <darn> Looking at set in stash.
Yep! No sokets in the bow. This would alow up to six sockets for it.
I would mostly use elite jewels in it with just one or two runes. <grin> <NASTY>
Too bad a rougue can't use. <NASTIER>

I have tried to nuge CE into figuring out how to get more mercs or allow them to use class restricted
equipment. <dreaming> Probable not possible.

Have you looked at the Blood Raven Dispair Set. I only have the bow and armor, not her pain.
No class restrictions. <SMILE> My rouge will love it. Even though its less than 50%  dmg and def of
Blood Ravins Remains.

This is a wishful though,,,, I have noticed that in some sets, the number of sockets vairies in some of the items.
And that class restrictions are dropped or missing. IF this was is a bug it's a nice one. <SMILE>
A little varity in the sets would just make them more interesting to find and use, not nesscesarily stronger.
<darn, no spell checker, typos and missed spelled words are free>

My zon is using M'avina's Battle Hymn right now. My other zons are retired. The oils have made her a killer.

So far that is. Strill in Lets Rock, though. Hell will change that. <girn>

Jewel drops still too thin, only three trough the deseart part of act two. Of coarse one was an elite. <small SMILE>

Just starting Palace.

Sorry about chattering away so much,, enjoy your posts,

CYA

bdpf

Ps; Webwalker I agree.

Some of the secondary enhancments of sets could be more radom,

[MrBad151]

Webwalker, get a bow with rune word faith in it.  See if these "returned" tank upto your satisfaction.  (the Fanaticism aura only increases thier damage out put, and does nothing to increase how well they tank)  Personally I think these tank pretty well, if not better than my Merc at times.

What I'd like to do is come to some sort agreement so we can present Chaos with a clear suggestion as to what we think the set SHOULD have, then leave it up to him.

One problem I see with your suggesting summon resist/golem mastery if some sort of golem is kept or suggesting +1 revive/summon resist is that if you get too many abilities on an item/set the window blanks out and you can't see what abilities an item has (I think someone also said it can cause the game to crash, although it doesn't in mine)

While I agree the "returned" are of marginal use, they do what I want well enough/long enough.. that being distracting the monsters while I dish out enough damage to kill them off.

You've suggested using a bloodgolem (with golem mastery/summon resist), other than the name it isn't really very "bloodravenish."  Also the life tap of the blood golem isn't really all that helpful, I can go from almost no health to full health with a single volley of straff.. and I don't like the idea of the blood golem draining my life if he starts taking too much damage (don't forget he won't have curses helping him out i.e. iron madien)

So can we agree that fists of fire (a melee only skill, that obiviously isn't working on a bow) needs to be replaced..

Suggestion for a sutible replacement?  I'd go for lvl 30 chain lightning or lvl 30 fists from heaven..   Fists of Heaven probably being the more powerful of the two suggestions, although also the most visually impressive! *grin*

[webwalker]

Webwalker, get a bow with rune word faith in it.  See if these "returned" tank upto your satisfaction.  (the Fanaticism aura only increases thier damage out put, and does nothing to increase how well they tank)  Personally I think these tank pretty well, if not better than my Merc at times.

This isn't about the B.R. set unless the B.R. set gave fanaticism (Replacing the golem with +5 fanat would be killer!)

What I'd like to do is come to some sort agreement so we can present Chaos with a clear suggestion as to what we think the set SHOULD have, then leave it up to him.

 
That's my vision too!

<snip> we agree the golem can go; if the golem stays then which one? I'd say Clay or Blood.  Blood is more undead-like. It's not just the name, there is no golem as gross and died-last-week-looking as the blood golem.

So can we agree that fists of fire (a melee only skill, that obiviously isn't working on a bow) needs to be replaced..
Suggestion for a sutible replacement?  I'd go for lvl 30 chain lightning or lvl 30 fists from heaven..   Fists of Heaven probably being the more powerful of the two suggestions, although also the most visually impressive! *grin*

Agreed on all points here..

[MrBad151]

I suggested checking out how well those returned tanked to see if you thought 10% chance to revive slain as "returned/zombie" without +'s to revive or summon resist as a sutible replacement for the golem. 

If the revived don't tank well enough without +'s to revive and summon resist or if you don't think they provide enough of a distraction then we need to think of something else to replace the golem.

Take into consideration that if Fists from Heaven is put on the set, the holy bolts will actually heal your "returned" making them even tougher.

"+5 fanat would be killer!"
While I agree with you here, I'd rather see +5 holy freeze.  Although I can't think of anything to jusify putting either one on the set.

As for the number of sockets on the set.. At least on THIS set (legacy of bloodraven) I don't think that the number of sockets is an issue.  The set provides pretty good resists (especially fire resist).  The few sockets allow a few runes to be inserted to up the resists if necessary or add a bit of Damage reduction.  5 Sockets can be put into the bow to customize to a particular playing style. 

Although I don't have a problem with the number of sockets in this set, the number of sockets in the Tribute to Chaos set needs to be looked at, but we can get to that after we finish with the bloodraven set *wink*.

So far:

Fists of fire- replace with: lvl 30 Fists from Heaven or
                                    lvl 30 Chain Lightning

Now for the Golem issue:
Replace golem with 10% revive slain as "returned"?  Slightly higher percent?  Something altogether different?

[webwalker]

I suggested checking out how well those returned tanked to see if you thought 10% chance to revive slain as "returned/zombie" without +'s to revive or summon resist as a sutible replacement for the golem. 

*me?*  I'm limited by not having the set nor a level 85 Zon to try it with.  I've had other items or runewords (don't remember which now) that gave a %age reviving as "returned" and they were a minor distraction to the enemy (like a decoy) but not otherwise combat-significant, and got left & lost when I moved from one fight to the next.

If the revived don't tank well enough without +'s to revive and summon resist or if you don't think they provide enough of a distraction then we need to think of something else to replace the golem.

I think they don't tank well enough because of their very slow movement rate (a little above a decoy), their AI that does not stay with the reviving character (a problem for all revived monsters) and their 'speed of evaporation' which causes each new fight to startwith (roughly) 0 'returned' remaining from the previous fight.  If they 'revived as ghosts' they'd stay with the reviving character better because of their higher move base and ability to ignore obstructions.

Take into consideration that if Fists from Heaven is put on the set, the holy bolts will actually heal your "returned" making them even tougher.

I don't see them dying from damage as much as I see them of little value to the fight at hand (B.R's Revived track on the enemy (me) *very* well) and of little value in the next fight because of low speed and stumbling on obstructions.

"+5 fanat would be killer!"
While I agree with you here, I'd rather see +5 holy freeze.  Although I can't think of anything to jusify putting either one on the set.

This notion is to make the 'returned' move faster and hit harder.  Concentration might be a better idea since Fanat and H.F. are both available from RuneWords on a merc.  Also it's to help the set compete with tempered runeworded rares.

Although I don't have a problem with the number of sockets in this set, the number of sockets in the Tribute to Chaos set needs to be looked at, but we can get to that after we finish with the bloodraven set *wink*.
So far:
Fists of fire- replace with: lvl 30 Fists from Heaven or
                                    lvl 30 Chain Lightning
Now for the Golem issue:
Replace golem with 10% revive slain as "returned"?  Slightly higher percent?  Something altogether different?

10% slain return as The Butcher?  (just kidding)
I think this would have to be balanced by somebody experienced with the set.  That's not me at this time.

[MrBad151]

"*me?*  I'm limited by not having the set nor a level 85 Zon to try it with.  I've had other items or runewords (don't remember which now) that gave a %age reviving as "returned" and they were a minor distraction to the enemy (like a decoy) but not otherwise combat-significant, and got left & lost when I moved from one fight to the next."

This posses a bit of a problem since you and I seem to have a difference of opinion of the usefulness of revived.  Its true there are a lot of fights that you start with zero returned to help, but considering the compactness of monsters in Hell lvl it really isn't all that many. 

I've found that my merc and Valkyre last long enough to get a few revived going, then I back off and let the revive take most of the hits while my merc and Valkyre do damage.  I have made it through large sections of ACT 2 with revived following me the whole time, in other places they tend to get lost more often.

I speak from a considerable amount of experience, both with using revived (having used a bow with the Faith rune word) and now my 94 Bowazon is using the bloodraven set.