Topic: Suggestions?

[MrBad151]

I've just completed the Bloodraven's Legacy set and put 5 sockets into the bow.  One of the sockets I put the rune for "ignore targets defense".  Does anyone have any suggestions for other runes I should put into the bow?  I was thinking maybe a "blinds target".  Otherwise I think I'm going to stick rare jewels into the sockets.  What about a Zod for poison damage???

[Olfmo]

it depends on how your skills are distributed

if you go for ele dmg you may consider zod runes, but there's an old d2 bug who crashes the game if you put the cursor over an item with too much stats (which may happen with zods^^)

perhaps ber runes for cb although it doesn't work as well with bows...

[webwalker]

Thought: focus on physical damage only.  In your bow, put Ohm runes, 5 of them, this adds 250%ED total.  Whether you use strafe or multi-shot, this will clear the screen leaving only the PIs.

When you deal with the left-overs, which are all PI, switch to cold arrow or fire arrow, which, at your level, should convert 50% of your 24K damage to cold/fire damage respectively.  Magic Arrow, at your level, should convert 30% of your 24K damage to magic damage. Optimize your merc for Lightning/Poison damage for the once-in-a-blue-moon PI/FI/CI/MI. If your merc has an Infinity pole-arm, the Conviction both enhances the elemental damage for the PIs, and drops target defense (taking the place of the Jah rune).

[MrBad151]

I use straff, I found it has better flexibility than multi arrow.  Straff is nasty vs a single creature where as multi arrow is just a waste.  I've never been killed by straff lock (although almost many times), although I do have to be careful.  Bloodravens legacy give +2000 fire damage so straight PI's really aren't a problem.. 2000 X 25 arrows=dead critter!  Immolation arrow is lvl 70, magic arrow is mid 60's.

Could I get better ED from rare jewels than Ohm runes?
Is Crushing blow still 1/10 current hps for bows?
What about open wounds?  I read some place that its no longer dependant on Character lvl..  so what kinda damage does it do now?

Oh!  I think the crash bug has been fixed when an item shows too many abilities.  Now It just doesn't show anything.  I've already run into that problem.

For Chaos:

Suggestion for Bloodravens Legeacy...  Change lvl 50 meteor when you die to..  lvl 50 Fists of heaven. It makes far more sence since its fists of heaven that goes off then you kill bloodraven 
Also it would have much more bloodraven feel if you changed +40 fire golem to.. revive slain as zombie 10% or something along that line

[webwalker]

I use strafe, I found it has better flexibility than multi arrow. Strafe is nasty vs a single creature. I've never been killed by strafe lock (although almost many times), although I do have to be careful. Bloodravens legacy give +2000 fire damage so straight PI's really aren't a problem.. 2000 X 25 arrows=dead critter!

Note: there is a delay, when you hit anything with strafe, that until 4 frames pass that critter won't be hit with strafe again. "NextDelay".  If your frame-rate is 2 (and it should be) it takes 2 seconds to unleash all 25 arrows, and 8 of them (max) can hit the same target (every third arrow).  So you have 2000x8=16000 fire damage, which is still reason to reach for the burn ointment.

Immolation arrow is lvl 70, magic arrow is mid 60's.

Could I get better ED from rare jewels than Ohm runes?

Jewels top out at 40%ED, Ohm is 50%, so "which is better" depends on the second mod on the jewel, which could be +15 to minimum damage.  This jewel would be superior to straight Ohm.
Remember also your rings can be socketed to hold a gem, jewel, or rune, the effect is the same as in a weapon, so 2 more Ohm can go there, or Um, Nef, Cham, etc.

Is Crushing blow still 1/10 current hps for bows?
What about open wounds? I read some place that its no longer dependant on Character lvl.. so what kinda damage does it do now?

I believe Ranged Weapons and mercs do 1/16 damage by C.B., only player melee does 1/8 damage, but 1/16 of life 8 times in 2 seconds is 31.29% of original life remaining.  Getting 100%CB is not easy, but do-able.  DIVA set with Ber in the rings is about 70%-80%CB right there.

Suggestion for Bloodravens Legeacy... Change lvl 50 meteor when you die to.. lvl 50 Fists of heaven. It makes far more sense since its fists of heaven that goes off then you kill bloodraven
Also it would have much more bloodraven feel if you changed +40 fire golem to.. revive slain as zombie 10% or something along that line

Since I play HC, the % chance on death is, well... pointless.  Especially since Merc death doesn't trigger it.
%chance to cast on attack or hit would be better... Static field would be perfect.  Fire Golems are wonderrful... give one to BloodRaven, and a dozen to Diablo.

[ChaosEmpire]

Next hit delay.

I looked into files and found the following ranged attackss with a next hit delay
- nova
- chainlightning
- teeth
- poison nova
- frostnova-
- diablo lightning
- diablo fire
- cold unique (all missiles btw)
- nova1 and 2
- multiple shotarrow/bolt
- strafearrow/bolt (same delay as ms)
- battle cry
- lightningstrike
fistofheavensbolt
- warcry (6 frames, mostly the others 4 or less)
- battlecommand
- battle orders
- grimwardscare
- chainlightning2
- shock field on ground (25 frames!!!)
- blade creeper (25)
- eruption crack1+2
- twister(25)
- tornado (25)
- volcano (10)
volcano small fire
dragonbreeath missile
death mauler
shockwave
wake of destruction
lighning charge up nova
chainlightningcharge up
baal taunt lightning (trail)
baal inferno
baal nova
clawsof thunder bolt/nova
royalstrikechainlightning/chaosice
baal cold maker/trail
lightningtowernova
vipe firecloud
trap nova
mephfrostnova

thats the names from the file..but as you can see, there are some missiles, i can decrease, to make it harder, or easier...
probably i should remove the delay from dia lightning...

[webwalker]

These fall into 4 categories:
1: Main Monster attacks (drop NHD, the act bosses are too weak anymore)
2: Weak player attacks (NHD could go away)
3: Attacks I don't recognize (can anybody explain please?)
4: Monster attacks that need attention.
Others deleted are "ok as is" to me.

I looked into files and found the following ranged attackss with a next hit delay
2: - nova
2: - teeth
2: - frostnova
1: - diablo lightning
1: - diablo fire
3: - cold unique (all missiles btw) (Frozen Horror breath? if so 1:)
3: - nova1 and 2
3: - lightningstrike (if this is the assassin MA skill, I plead ignorance)
3: - chainlightning2 (ditto)
2: - shock field on ground (25 frames!!!)
3: - blade creeper (25)
3: - eruption crack1+2
2: - twister(25)
2: - volcano (10)
3: - volcano small fire
3: - dragonbreath missile
4: death mauler DANGER This is a multi-frame physical attack, equivalent to monster strafe on 1 target.  DANGEROUS if monster is Enchanted in any way without NHD.
1: baal taunt lightning (trail)  PLEASE increase the casting delay.  The damage is not a problem, but not being able to tie your shoes or arrange inventory without getting smacked *is*.  Ditto poison tanuts.
1: baal inferno
1: baal nova
3: baal cold maker/trail
1: lightningtowernova
4: viper firecloud  DANGER Same problem as Death Mauler, if you *stand* in the cloud you take 1 damage, if you *move through it* you take damage/frame, this is both elemental (poison) *and* physical (report taken from b.net players for 1.10/1.11) and is as deadly as I.M.
1: trap nova (should go off twice in NM, multiple times in Hell).
3: mephfrostnova (Meph has a Bowling Ball of Frozen Death, but not a Nova.  Izual does, which is category 1.  Meph should use Frozen Orb.)

probably i should remove the delay from diablo lightning...

Agreed.  Diablo Itself used to fill me with fear, now it fears me.  The Main Boss Atatcks should loose NHD unless that means the Iron Wolves could use them in full-auto-fire (which wonders if NHD is part of Casting Delay for AI entities).

[Fayli]

Cham is always good.. freezes target.. nef, for knockback is a good bowzon add.. ohm is always good, for more damage.. the zod in this version rocks in weapons. but this is just one man's humble opinion

[MrBad151]

"I believe Ranged Weapons and mercs do 1/16 damage by C.B., only player melee does 1/8 damage, but 1/16 of life 8 times in 2 seconds is 31.29% of original life remaining.  Getting 100%CB is not easy, but do-able.  DIVA set with Ber in the rings is about 70%-80%CB right there."

Actually getting 100% on CB isn't that hard at all, up till I completed the bloodravens set I was using a shattering Breastplate, which gives Deadly strike/crushing blow percent equal to the character lvl.  So for my 92 bowazon it was 92% DS/CB!  With a nice GMB tempered etc.. it was a pretty decent combo.

I was a bit confused by your fire golem comment..  I'm guessing it was sarcasim    If you play HC than I would think you would like the idea of revive dead as zombie..  one it gets rid of corpses and two it give critters something else to attack besides you!  At the moment I can't even cast fire golem because it costs about 100 more mana than I have.  A lvl 50 fire golem is expensive to cast for an Amazon.  There is a "on hit" attack on the bow.. 5/10% chance to cast lvl 30 fists of fire.  Again this is rather lame, as its neither visually impressive or impressive damage wise.  I can't even tell if it ever goes off.  Now if it was a lvl 3 fist of fire it would acceptable, since you could see it go off and would leave fire behind to do damage.. but as is, it could use tweeking.

I'm not after making the bloodraven set any more uber than it is.. I prefer items to have some.." flavor".. that's why I usually prefer uniques.. that seem to have more "flavor" than more uber rares..

[webwalker]

Fire Golems are neat!  I like them!  For monsters (like Blood Raven) to have one (a suggestion to Chaos to consider) would make Blood Raven herself nastier by far, so I suggested giving her one.  Giving Diablo 10 of them would help balance the sad fact that The Big Lizard is a bit of a push-over anymore.

Not got enough Mana?  Charms that increase Mana are not hard to find, and Zods in your armor will help this (10% more life, 5% more mana)

I've used weapons that give Revived from Kills and they're pitiful.  Not equal to skeletal mages, and *they're* pitiful. So I'd rather have a high-level Fire Golem, esp if I can have +1 to Golem Mastery and +1 to summon resists.  Even more, I'd like a high-level clay golem.  Giving Diablo a 4/8/12 level 20/40/60 clay golems in norm/nm/hell would *suck*!  *Big Time*!  (hit slows target which is *me*, and they're a damage sponge!)

Getting rid of corpses by some (small) percentage turning into Returned or Zombies is lame... the larger percentage is still available for Corpse Explosion or the Shamen, and the combat value is nil.  Yes, they're distractions, and I've benefitted from that, but it's a minor thing IMHO.

[MrBad151]

I finially got enough mana to cast Fire Golem with the bloodraven set, a lvl 52 fire golem no less.. and he lasted a whole 30 seconds!!!  So I cast him again and he lasted 2 seconds..

A lvl 53 fire golem with no synergies, no golem mastery, and no resist all just don't stand a chance in "hell" lvl.

Its the same thing with Tribute to chaos set and the lvl 40 Iron Golem.  If I'm lucky the golem will last a minute or two, most of the time he lasts about 30 seconds.  I've tried summoning an Iron golem from all kinds of things, items with life leech, armor with damage reduction, armor with resists.

While the golems look good on paper, in practice they are far too weak to use.  It would be better to change these to something else, or even just remove them so they don't over load the item window causing it to blank out.

If I may, I'd suggest changing the bloodraven set to revive slain as returned (zombie), and the tribute to Chaos set to 10% chance to "convert" (as pally skill) upon striking.

It could be I'm doing something wrong with these golems, if anyone has actually used one of these sets and does NOT have a hard time keeping their golem alive, please, let me know.

[ChaosEmpire]

good sugestion

could you please add a list to the item thread with current item with senseless (golem...) and enter the suggestion with revive slain...

[bdpf]

@CE

I have noticed of late thet the drop rate of jewls - blue a few

                          RARE NONE   

In the the last ten or so SP games I have run. Both in normal and Let's Rock.

A quick question; Do you put +8 or x8  after the start command to start a SP game with the exprenc of eight players???

thks

bdpf

[MrBad151]

Item thread?  Would this be the thread you are refering to? "     Re: Wuensche und Ideen Thread Keine Items"

The drop rate on Jewels isn't too bad, but rare jewels is very low.  I doubt I get one rare jewel per hour of play.  I'd say the drop rate of rare jewels is about the same as rare charms, pretty low, but considering how useful they are, it seems about right.

Act III is usually a good spot for jewels and charms.. you kill so many monsters something decent is going to drop sooner rather than later.

[webwalker]

No, that thread title "Wuensche und Ideen Thread Keine Items" translates to
Wishes and Ideas Not Items.
An Item thread... I gotta go look for it.

In answer to Chaos: +1 Golem Mastery +1 Summon Resists would help Mr. Fire Golem some, so would reducing his mana cost.  MrBad151 has it right: no single skill has a chance in hell (cgs) without its synergies.  Many killer skills were weakened because overwhelming strength was easy for players.  E.g. corpse explosion and raise skelly.  To balance killer skills, monsters are tough enough that the level 20 poison nova of Breath Of The Dying (50% chance on killing enemy) is rather weak.  For the BloodRaven set, I believe Blood Golem boosts the life of other golems, so +5 to blood golem would help the fire golem significantly.  BloodRaven could have BloodGolem instead of Fire, it would fit her name better; it's job would be to act as a life leach for the zon with the BloodRaven set. 

Whatever items gives a chance to revive as (whatever) should give +1 skeletal mastery to boost the life of the revive, and ghosts would be better than zombies because we have to be quick-footed  (zombies fall behind and 'evaporate' very quickly).

To MrBad151: the rare jewel drop rate is about equal to the rare charm drop rate: Each rare charm (unless it's *really* good) turns a blue jewel into a yellow jewel.
Farming for rare charms does not require a high level area, re-running act III normal is a decent way to hunt up rare charms.  Also, inner cloister.  Cubing a high-level blue jewel by a high-level char will overcome the low level of the rare charm if you're looking for rare jewels for their affixes (and rare jewels I use mostly to create set items).

@bdpf to get the game to /players 8 is impossible.  The game starts at /players 13 (12 + you) and can get tougher to /players 20 (12 + 8 people including you).  Easy to do from inside the game before you leave camp/town.

[MrBad151]

"Whatever items gives a chance to revive as (whatever) should give +1 skeletal mastery to boost the life of the revive, and ghosts would be better than zombies because we have to be quick-footed  (zombies fall behind and 'evaporate' very quickly)."

I've used a ring that has revive slain as returned and they held up quite well.  They usually either expired or evaporated before they were distroyed, so I don't think skeletal mastery is needed.  And while Ghosts would "work" better for quick-footed Zons, zombies make more since for the set, since Bloodraven would raise zombies from graves.  In heavily populated areas (most areas in Hell lvl) it isn't hard to get 3-5 revived walking around (w/ 10% chance to revive).

The skill shouldn't be too powerful, the rest of the set is already fairly powerful, so you don't want people running around with 10 ghosts.  Having zombies evaporate fairly often would keep the skill balanced, while adding an interesting and useful ability to the set.

[bdpf]

@webwalker

The +8 was for regular d2 old, I think sorry.

@bdpf to get the game to /players 8 is impossible.  The game starts at /players 13 (12 + you) and can get tougher to /players 20 (12 + 8 people including you).  Easy to do from inside the game before you leave camp/town.

How would you do this in the camp?

I have no hard copy of any info / readme, etc. (NO PRINT) (bad memory, TOO)

@jewl drop rate,,,, STILL TOO LOW.
By the time you get your guy to good possiable jewel drop area, your pushing to go on, not do repeats of area.
I refering to SP here...

The lack of rare / blue jewels earily in SP game, ah ah  ah, you get the drift I hope..
Just makes hard for SP players.

This is from the veiw point of an old, jadded Diablo, Diablo II, D2 LOD, Diablo II Mod, and Now D2 LOD CE mod player.
Both on and off line. THIS IS NOT A bitch,,,,,,, Spent hours / day as D2 lod player on b-net, open and closed.

Just a statement. This is the best all around mod of d2 that I have ever played.
Miss the on-line part, no dsl, #@^%$$!&*, poor kb rate on dial-up for over seas. <DARN>

bdpf
Postet at: December 14, 2005, 06:52:37 pm@MrBad151

I run zons and sorc mostly,
1st inventory;
Switching between straff and molti-shot, on right hand button of mouse, as situation demands.
Using the cold dmg arrows on the left. Switdhing to imodulation arrow / guided arrow, on the right.
2nd inventory;
Throwing spear / javalin, with rune words / green set.
With the best lighting & possin skills, both left and right, switching only to jab & fend when possin & sparks not working.

I sujest we let the Blood Raven set be for awhile, and maybe make changes to it in the update after the next if needed.<grin>
This will let more poeple use it and think of needed changes or tweaks.

Personelly, I beleive that  a good portion of the midle to upper level sets could allow for use of goolom, valkarie, etc, that would reflect the level of the charactor wearing the set.   Not fixed to a low level.  Of coarse CE and the others might not be able to code it in to the mod. The limits to what they can do inside the game is a bummer. It is a sad state that Blizzard will not release and other expansion of the game, or allow CE the right to expand the game. I know this treads the thin line of being legal CE.

Darn I really of topic, sorry. I shut-up now.

tks to ya all

bdpf

[MrBad151]

When you enter the game type /players 15   or what ever you want to set the xp lvl to.

I only play single player as well, and while there are times rare charms/jewels are few and far between, there are other times I get several in a short amount of time.  As for blue jewels they drop fairly often for me.. I'd say 2-3 per area i.e. plains of dispare, flayer jungle, etc..

[bdpf]

Thks MrBad151

I have forgotten so much. <smile> or never knew. <grin>

Jewel drops are still too thin....

Now if Ce really wanted to make an interesting change,

A single drop of an exprence  gaining Item, in one game out of 5 or 10.

Some form of arrmor of any type or level, not a shield or weapon,
 that would give double or tripple digit exprence gain.

Can you imagine how some players would look for such an item.
Oils then could be used to increase its def, fortatude, etc,

Its a old dream, that CE will not like. Probably throw the game out of balance for on-line play. <sad>

Thks for the help.
bdpf

BIG PS @ CE 

Could you make the torchs give more light?   [darn spell checker brain not working]

Not gold, just light!
thks CE for the great mod
again bdpf

[webwalker]

Lighting from devices is limited with a "light radius".  There are items that boost your "light radius", but anything that amounts to more than +13 to light radius is wasted, the game engine doesn't show more.

Now, a potion of infravision that turns darkened areas (including from the other assassin casting Cloak of Shadows) into daylight, would be worthwhile!

But... torches should increase the rate of monsters coming to you, like Confusion does, and getting mobbed might not always be what you want!

[MrBad151]

"I sujest we let the Blood Raven set be for awhile, and maybe make changes to it in the update after the next if needed.<grin>
This will let more poeple use it and think of needed changes or tweaks."

I'm not quite sure you'd want to wait to make changes, unless ofcourse the next update is coming out tomorrow <wink>.  Now would seem to be the time to make suggestions so they can be put into the next update and see how they work out.  I'm not suggesting huge overpowering changes to the set, only replacing a unless skill with something a bit more useful.

Spending 560 mana on a fire golem only to have him killed by the first pygmy with a bit knife is what I call rather useless.  When I first saw the set I thought to myself "oh wow! lvl 40 fire golem!! that will be so cool to have!"  That excitement lasted about as long as my first fire golem did.. 10 seconds!

Bloodraven's Legecy is a "hell" lvl set, considering you have to be atleast 85 to complete it.  Taking that plus the fact its a SIX piece set, it should be both powerful and useful, since you don't have a lot of other open spots to fill in to make up for weaknesses in the set.  Also take into consideration that all the armor pieces at pre-socketed with 1 socket.. so the set needs to provide things necessary to survive in "hell" lvl since you won't be able to add much via runes or jewels.

Bloodravens Remainings
Matriarchal Bow
Two-Hand Damage: 20 - 47
Required Dexterity: 187
Level Required: 80
3 to Amazon Skill Levels
3 to Bow & Crossbow (Amazon only)
60% Increased Attack Speed
400% Enhanced Damage
4 to Maximum Damage (Based on Character Level)
100 magic damage
Color on char: Light Yellow
Color in inventory: Light Yellow
4 Setitems
10 to Immolation Arrow (Amazon only)


   Bloodravens Ironmask
Spired Helm
Defense: 46 - 64
Durability: 40
Required Strength: 192
Level Required: 85
200% Enhanced Defense
All Resistances 20%
30 To All Attributes
Requirements -50%
Socked (1)
Indestructible
Color on char: Light Yellow
Color in inventory: Light Yellow
2 Setitems
20% Increased Attack Speed
3 Setitems
90 to Life
4 Setitems
90 to Mana
5 Setitems
1 to Dexterity (Based on Character Level)


   Bloodravens Shroud
Wire Fleece
Defense: 150 - 192
Durability: 32
Required Strength: 111
Level Required: 85
400% Enhanced Defense
30 to Dexterity
30 to Strength
90 to Life
Socked (1)
Indestructible
Color on char: Light Yellow
Color in inventory: Light Yellow
2 Setitems
1 to Passive & Magic (Amazon only)
3 Setitems
90 to Life
4 Setitems
20 to Strength
5 Setitems
1.5 to Dexterity (Based on Character Level)


   Bloodravens Loincloth
Vampirefang Belt
Defense: 22 - 25
Durability: 14
Required Strength: 50
Level Required: 85
200% Enhanced Defense
30 to Dexterity
30 to Strength
10% Mana stolen per hit
10% Life stolen per hit
Socked (1)
Indestructible
Color on char: Light Yellow
Color in inventory: Light Yellow
2 Setitems
10% Mana stolen per hit
3 Setitems
10% Life stolen per hit
4 Setitems
All Resistances 20%
5 Setitems
2 to Life (Based on Character Level)


   Bloodravens Gloves
Armcover
Defense: 22 - 26
Durability: 75
Required Strength: 84
Level Required: 80
200% Enhanced Defense
20% Increased Attack Speed
Knockback
2 to Bow & Crossbow (Amazon only)
20 to Dexterity
10% Life stolen per hit
10% Mana stolen per hit
Indestructible
Color on char: Light Yellow
Color in inventory: Light Yellow
2 Setitems
20 to Dexterity
3 Setitems
50 to Mana
4 Setitems
5% Chance to cast Level 30 Enchant on striking
5 Setitems
10% Chance to cast Level 30 Fists of Fire on attack


   Bloodravens Cryptboots
Scarabshell Boots
Defense: 22 - 26
Damage: 60 - 110
Durability: 14
Required Strength: 91
Level Required: 80
400% Enhanced Defense
20 to Dexterity
100% Faster Run/Walk
50% Faster Hit Recovery
Maximum Stamina 100
Cannot be Frozen
Color on char: Light Yellow
Color in inventory: Light Yellow
2 Setitems
All Resistances 20%
3 Setitems
40% Faster Run/Walk
4 Setitems
90 to Life
5 Setitems
Maximum Resist Fire 25%


   Setbonus
2 Setitems
40% Increased Attack Speed
3 Setitems
20% Increased Maximum Mana
4 Setitems
Regenerate Mana 25%
5 Setitems
Resist Fire 100%
Full Set
4 to Amazon Skill Levels
10 to Bow & Crossbow (Amazon only)
2000 Fire Damage
25% Chance to cast Level 10 Hydra when struck
100% Chance to cast Level 50 Meteor when you Die
40 to Fire Golem
-50% to Enemy Fire Resistance

As you can see the set does a good job of providing Life, mana, and resists, it also dishes out good physical damage with lots of IAS, and does lots of fire damage via +2000 fire damage and the +7 to Immolation arrow (although the web page says +10, in game it shows +7)

My problem with the lvl 40 fire golem is two fold. One, the first golem only lasts 30 seconds at best in hell lvl, and two, it doesn't make sense as a "bloodraven" ability.  Bloodraven didn't summon fire golems, she summoned zombies!

Personally I'd change the Meteor to First from Heaven, since that's what happens to bloodraven when she dies (although many who play HC couldn't really care less about either <grin>)

Enchant add 167 pts of damge to each arrow plus increasing attack, first of fire does additional 441 pts of fire damage.  While enchant is nice for a bit of extra damage and attack per arrow, first of fire is rather unimpressive consider I'm not even sure it ever goes off since you can't see it.  While I'm sure it does, I think the set would be better served with a different ability.  Webwalker suggested perhaps Static field.  Although I have my reservation about Static field as it might make the set TOO POWERFUL.  I was thinking maybe lvl 30 Chain lightning.. it would be both visually impressive as well as adding a new element damage to the set.  Fists of the heaven might also work, doing a bit of lightning damage and sending off holy bolts to heal your merc and valkyrie.

I use sets and uniques almost exclusively for all of my characters, as I like items with themes, even though I could get more powerful items with rares that have been tempered with rune words.  When you consider how powerful items with rune words and then tempered are... perhaps the rewards of completing a set should be just a signifigant.

Edit:
For Chaos!  I just checked the Teddy on my 93 Amazon that is using the bloodraven set.. it shows that she has attacked 7 monsters.  So my question is.. Fists of Fire casts on ATTACK... my teddy only shows 7 monsters ever being attacked.  If these two are checking the same thing then fists of fire isn't ever being cast and it would be another useless skill..

[webwalker]

There are quite a few Upper End Sets that might benefit from tweaking their overall effect.

For BloodRaven, I'd agree to change Fire Golem to Blood Golem, Clay Golem, or leave it Fire Golem.  A point in Golem Mastery and Summon Resist is the important thing for use in Hell.  I haven't seen these come up on the Puppenkeist, nor on charms, nor as o-skills, so they should be considered for the set.

Slain return as Zombies is (in my experience) of marginal use, +1 to Revive would be much more effective (assuming the point in Summon Resist).

Putting 1 socket in set items (to make them un-socket-able) and making them indestructible (so they can't be made ethereal) are two binds upon the set that merit reconsideration: Perhaps Chaos can grep through the database and determine how many upper-end Zons wear the BloodRaven set?  If none wear it, then it probably isn't over-powered.

The benefit of Enchant on striking is more the AR boost than the fire damage.  If you want fire damage, get a big-physical-damage set of equipment (like B.R.), and max FireArrow, the level 1 skill, which will convert 50+% of your 20+K physical damage to fire damage.  Cold Arrow (level 6 skill) can convert  your enormous physical damage to cold damage.  Magic Arrow, likewise, to magical damage.  Lightning and poison is your remaining weakness.  +1 to Enchant would be superior to level x enchant on striking IMHO since you could then enchant your Zombies, Merc, and yourself.

AIUI, "Fists of Fire" is a melee-only attack form (like Zeal... Zeal on a bow is a big tease) and (IIRC) the teddy only tracks melee attacks.  "Fist of the Heaves" on attack or strike would be far better than "Fists of Fire" since it's a BloodRaven-like manifestation, and it would do lightning damage to your target (especially if you get +1 to lightning mastery as a 4 item set bonus), leaving poison damage as your last weakness.

I'd like to see the belt do what a tempered rare belt can do: +2 skills, damage reduction, and poison damage.

MrBad151 makes a valid point: "Mumble when you die" attributes are another cruel tease to us HardCore players.
IMHO so are "increases near Mumble" affixes since we can't tell what we're doing while underground.  Half the max effect (i.e. average) being in effect all the time would be far more interesting.

[bdpf]

@Webwalker
The infered potuion would be nice, <grin> But it's graphics could be a red torch instead of a pot.
Be easirer to find, not sold, just a drop. <SMILE>

Being mobed helps get exprence. <GRIN>  If you live, which I try to do.  I hate it when butcher runs amok.

I think it would be nicer as a torch, if possible. CE will decide, of coarse. <grin>
I try to train my rouges to be killers and equip them better than my zon. My vikes tend to be blood thristy, too.
A  normal act one rougue gets nasty in Hell. Nastier now that they can use more equipment. <Big Nasty SMILE>
What can I say, I like nasty little girls. I tend to keep my rogues through all levels, to the end.

@MrBad151

I see you have put a lot of thought into your reasons, what ever secondary skill is added it sould
be strong enought to last more than 30 sec. and be able to kill or defend in hell.

I see that you don't list the bow as being socketed. Wish I had a hard copy of the set.. <darn> Looking at set in stash.
Yep! No sokets in the bow. This would alow up to six sockets for it.
I would mostly use elite jewels in it with just one or two runes. <grin> <NASTY>
Too bad a rougue can't use. <NASTIER>

I have tried to nuge CE into figuring out how to get more mercs or allow them to use class restricted
equipment. <dreaming> Probable not possible.

Have you looked at the Blood Raven Dispair Set. I only have the bow and armor, not her pain.
No class restrictions. <SMILE> My rouge will love it. Even though its less than 50%  dmg and def of
Blood Ravins Remains.

This is a wishful though,,,, I have noticed that in some sets, the number of sockets vairies in some of the items.
And that class restrictions are dropped or missing. IF this was is a bug it's a nice one. <SMILE>
A little varity in the sets would just make them more interesting to find and use, not nesscesarily stronger.
<darn, no spell checker, typos and missed spelled words are free>

My zon is using M'avina's Battle Hymn right now. My other zons are retired. The oils have made her a killer.

So far that is. Strill in Lets Rock, though. Hell will change that. <girn>

Jewel drops still too thin, only three trough the deseart part of act two. Of coarse one was an elite. <small SMILE>

Just starting Palace.

Sorry about chattering away so much,, enjoy your posts,

CYA

bdpf

Ps; Webwalker I agree.

Some of the secondary enhancments of sets could be more radom,

[MrBad151]

Webwalker, get a bow with rune word faith in it.  See if these "returned" tank upto your satisfaction.  (the Fanaticism aura only increases thier damage out put, and does nothing to increase how well they tank)  Personally I think these tank pretty well, if not better than my Merc at times.

What I'd like to do is come to some sort agreement so we can present Chaos with a clear suggestion as to what we think the set SHOULD have, then leave it up to him.

One problem I see with your suggesting summon resist/golem mastery if some sort of golem is kept or suggesting +1 revive/summon resist is that if you get too many abilities on an item/set the window blanks out and you can't see what abilities an item has (I think someone also said it can cause the game to crash, although it doesn't in mine)

While I agree the "returned" are of marginal use, they do what I want well enough/long enough.. that being distracting the monsters while I dish out enough damage to kill them off.

You've suggested using a bloodgolem (with golem mastery/summon resist), other than the name it isn't really very "bloodravenish."  Also the life tap of the blood golem isn't really all that helpful, I can go from almost no health to full health with a single volley of straff.. and I don't like the idea of the blood golem draining my life if he starts taking too much damage (don't forget he won't have curses helping him out i.e. iron madien)

So can we agree that fists of fire (a melee only skill, that obiviously isn't working on a bow) needs to be replaced..

Suggestion for a sutible replacement?  I'd go for lvl 30 chain lightning or lvl 30 fists from heaven..   Fists of Heaven probably being the more powerful of the two suggestions, although also the most visually impressive! *grin*

[webwalker]

Webwalker, get a bow with rune word faith in it.  See if these "returned" tank upto your satisfaction.  (the Fanaticism aura only increases thier damage out put, and does nothing to increase how well they tank)  Personally I think these tank pretty well, if not better than my Merc at times.

This isn't about the B.R. set unless the B.R. set gave fanaticism (Replacing the golem with +5 fanat would be killer!)

What I'd like to do is come to some sort agreement so we can present Chaos with a clear suggestion as to what we think the set SHOULD have, then leave it up to him.

 
That's my vision too!

<snip> we agree the golem can go; if the golem stays then which one? I'd say Clay or Blood.  Blood is more undead-like. It's not just the name, there is no golem as gross and died-last-week-looking as the blood golem.

So can we agree that fists of fire (a melee only skill, that obiviously isn't working on a bow) needs to be replaced..
Suggestion for a sutible replacement?  I'd go for lvl 30 chain lightning or lvl 30 fists from heaven..   Fists of Heaven probably being the more powerful of the two suggestions, although also the most visually impressive! *grin*

Agreed on all points here..

[MrBad151]

I suggested checking out how well those returned tanked to see if you thought 10% chance to revive slain as "returned/zombie" without +'s to revive or summon resist as a sutible replacement for the golem. 

If the revived don't tank well enough without +'s to revive and summon resist or if you don't think they provide enough of a distraction then we need to think of something else to replace the golem.

Take into consideration that if Fists from Heaven is put on the set, the holy bolts will actually heal your "returned" making them even tougher.

"+5 fanat would be killer!"
While I agree with you here, I'd rather see +5 holy freeze.  Although I can't think of anything to jusify putting either one on the set.

As for the number of sockets on the set.. At least on THIS set (legacy of bloodraven) I don't think that the number of sockets is an issue.  The set provides pretty good resists (especially fire resist).  The few sockets allow a few runes to be inserted to up the resists if necessary or add a bit of Damage reduction.  5 Sockets can be put into the bow to customize to a particular playing style. 

Although I don't have a problem with the number of sockets in this set, the number of sockets in the Tribute to Chaos set needs to be looked at, but we can get to that after we finish with the bloodraven set *wink*.

So far:

Fists of fire- replace with: lvl 30 Fists from Heaven or
                                    lvl 30 Chain Lightning

Now for the Golem issue:
Replace golem with 10% revive slain as "returned"?  Slightly higher percent?  Something altogether different?

[webwalker]

I suggested checking out how well those returned tanked to see if you thought 10% chance to revive slain as "returned/zombie" without +'s to revive or summon resist as a sutible replacement for the golem. 

*me?*  I'm limited by not having the set nor a level 85 Zon to try it with.  I've had other items or runewords (don't remember which now) that gave a %age reviving as "returned" and they were a minor distraction to the enemy (like a decoy) but not otherwise combat-significant, and got left & lost when I moved from one fight to the next.

If the revived don't tank well enough without +'s to revive and summon resist or if you don't think they provide enough of a distraction then we need to think of something else to replace the golem.

I think they don't tank well enough because of their very slow movement rate (a little above a decoy), their AI that does not stay with the reviving character (a problem for all revived monsters) and their 'speed of evaporation' which causes each new fight to startwith (roughly) 0 'returned' remaining from the previous fight.  If they 'revived as ghosts' they'd stay with the reviving character better because of their higher move base and ability to ignore obstructions.

Take into consideration that if Fists from Heaven is put on the set, the holy bolts will actually heal your "returned" making them even tougher.

I don't see them dying from damage as much as I see them of little value to the fight at hand (B.R's Revived track on the enemy (me) *very* well) and of little value in the next fight because of low speed and stumbling on obstructions.

"+5 fanat would be killer!"
While I agree with you here, I'd rather see +5 holy freeze.  Although I can't think of anything to jusify putting either one on the set.

This notion is to make the 'returned' move faster and hit harder.  Concentration might be a better idea since Fanat and H.F. are both available from RuneWords on a merc.  Also it's to help the set compete with tempered runeworded rares.

Although I don't have a problem with the number of sockets in this set, the number of sockets in the Tribute to Chaos set needs to be looked at, but we can get to that after we finish with the bloodraven set *wink*.
So far:
Fists of fire- replace with: lvl 30 Fists from Heaven or
                                    lvl 30 Chain Lightning
Now for the Golem issue:
Replace golem with 10% revive slain as "returned"?  Slightly higher percent?  Something altogether different?

10% slain return as The Butcher?  (just kidding)
I think this would have to be balanced by somebody experienced with the set.  That's not me at this time.

[MrBad151]

"*me?*  I'm limited by not having the set nor a level 85 Zon to try it with.  I've had other items or runewords (don't remember which now) that gave a %age reviving as "returned" and they were a minor distraction to the enemy (like a decoy) but not otherwise combat-significant, and got left & lost when I moved from one fight to the next."

This posses a bit of a problem since you and I seem to have a difference of opinion of the usefulness of revived.  Its true there are a lot of fights that you start with zero returned to help, but considering the compactness of monsters in Hell lvl it really isn't all that many. 

I've found that my merc and Valkyre last long enough to get a few revived going, then I back off and let the revive take most of the hits while my merc and Valkyre do damage.  I have made it through large sections of ACT 2 with revived following me the whole time, in other places they tend to get lost more often.

I speak from a considerable amount of experience, both with using revived (having used a bow with the Faith rune word) and now my 94 Bowazon is using the bloodraven set.