Topic: Nec´s in HC Hell (wieder) kastr...äh beschnitten oder (noch) spielbar ?

[Lemura]

Hallo Leutz,

hab jetzt schon längere Zeit nicht mehr HC gespielt und wollte gerne mal ein Feedback zu den Necs hören, wie
die im Moment, nach den Änderungen *räusper* jetzt spielbar sind. Insbesondere der Armymancer und seine
Varianten.

Gibt es immer noch das FETTE PROB des Necs, daß er an einigen Stellen, z.B. Tempel der Klauenvipern Lvl2,
wenn´s nach untern geht, dann plötzlich VOR seinen Minions steht, die sich nicht vom Fleck rühern und
er ALLE Prügel bezieht. Ich hatte das an zwei bis drei Stellen im Spiel. Sehr gefährlich und gar NICHT safe ! 

Nebenfrage: Wieso hatte man eigentlich die, eh schon langsamen, Necs runtergeschraubt und die Psi-Assel und ein
zwei sorc-varianten  so lange so stark gelassen *nicht versteh*. Zitat Chaos zu meinem Nec auf dem Weg zu Nilathak
in HC Hell "Du bist aber sehr langsam".

Gerade an den für den Nec kritischen Stellen, wo er alleine dasteht (Treppen, Klauenvipern Lvl.2 u.a.) kommt
ne sorc mit ihrem Manashield und dem massivst überlegenen Dam-output doch besser weg. Was nützen die
schönsten Minions, wenn sie nix tun . Und in HC ist das eine Mal ein Mal zuviel .   

Beweglichkeit und konzentrierter Damoutput wenns mal eng wird ist eine sehr starke Form von Sicherheit des
Chars. Der Nec hat das nicht. r 


Liebe Grüße aus Berlin

Lem

[webwalker]

Please be tolerant if I mis-understand you (my German is almost non-existant; your writing seems quite clear)

The necro "army-mancer" is still weakened by the loss of life for each skelly, and for the clumping you mentioned.  Since you mentioned the Viper Temple level 2, in particular: Viper Temple level 2 is particularly bad: my frame rate drops from 50 fps in level 1, at the top of the stairs, to 10fps inside level 2 (after the fight was over!)  This was with a psy assassin, no minions except The Screaming Bitch and my cold-sorc act III merc. The graphics are just too beautiful and complex for my primative system to handle.

As to the relative toughness of the Army-mancer and the Psy-Assassin: I was happily running an Army-mancer when the "nerf" hit the skeleton, crippling the build; if I comment much on how incredibly powerful the psy-assassin is while I'm building one, it might get nerfed mid-build, costing me another character... so I won't comment on how NM Duriel fell in 10 seconds to my psy-assassin, 5 of which seconds were spent wondering what my Screetching Bitch was doing... she'd teleport-kicked right into his face and was 3/4 dead before I got into the fight.  I won't comment on how I usually don't need her anywhere unless I suspect stair-traps or lag, because the psy skills are so powerful.

I haven't built a sorc in Chaos Empire yet, so I'll let others comment on the relative balance of the classes.  It is worthy to note that the Hardcore Ladder top two characters are necro's as of the time I last checked, but I don't know what type build.  There are *many* dead sorcs on the top page of Hard Core Ladder... many fewer dead Necros...

Come on back to Hard Core, we're pretty friendly and helpful and occasionally funny.

[countdracula]

we'll see how the ladder looks like this time. But the palas and barbs are til now really underrepresented in the hc ladder

[Tophead]

of course they are, they are the most iron maiden victims and not realy offensive (for example abrb with wihrwin cant use poitions while whirling)

but a n ecro is still playable.

nacro is imemrnoch spielbar, das treppenprob gits imo immernoch, aber das passiert auch bei jedem andeen char, deshalb ist auch maxblock pflicht in hc ;p  die skells wurden n bissle geschwächt sind trozdem noch super, von großem dam oputput ganz gezielt nicht zu sprechen... zeig mri eine sorc die nen größeren und esseren damoutput hat als CE.

[Mineralsoff]

Wenn man nicht aufpasst ist es halt vorbei. Fast jeder Char(-Build) hat seine Schwächen.. ist auch gut so, solange er auch Vorzüge hat. An Treppen und Eingängen steht ein Nec nunmal alleine da, dafür ist er im Cow doch einer der schnellsten ^^
Spielbar ist er auf jeden Fall noch, aber vielleicht nicht mehr so "sicher" wie vorher. Das heißt.. auf freien Flächen und in weiter Entfernung zu Treppen Auf-/Abgängen merkt man keinen wirklichen Unterschied

(Palas an die Macht!)

[Fenris]

palas are gay

but in my opinion i'ts a bug that the skeletons don't do anything in viper-temple 2
and in this level the framerate is really bad ofr my old pc-.-

[Tophead]

whats so hard in vipern lvl 2? dirnk an rare elexier (doesnt know the name exactly) have maxblock, use oison nova one tiem and 3 time ce and there is nothign living nymore

[countdracula]

another option is using confuse(curse) on the monsters. You should have some free room/time then.

[webwalker]

The PoisonMancer (?GiftTotenschwar?) is NOT  the Skelliemancer we were discussing earlier.  The Skelliemancer is a crippled built at the moment, but a poison/bone mancer (with or without some revives or skellies as a backup) might still be viable... I don't know what types of necros are the ones at the top of the ladder at the moment.

Confuse has no effect on Champions, but Attract does; Confuse (all) the attract(those not confused) should give good breating room.
You must be quick because there is NO "safe area" in Viper Temple level 2.

The "Valuable Elixer" is a very good idea!

(In my opinion, the kind of talk including "paladins are gay" and "you're a noob" belong elsewhere, not in Chaos Empire).

[Tophead]

but skellimancer uses ce and pnova as well cause he gots enough skillzfor that, but the synergie to pnova are outskilled very late, but thats off topic. i think (i have one in sp) that the skellmancer with ce is still playable.
akt5 merc with conv,fana and might/konz and they are strong enough, ce for mass-extermination andu 'll have no probs, i only use pnova on immunes.

[webwalker]

Poison Nova is ONE way to augment a skelliemancer's abilities, I have never tried it because in 1.10 (Battle.Net) it was rather weak.

Bone Spear or Bone Spirit is the more familiar (to me) path for a skeliemancer to augment his skellies.

Yes, CE is always there.

Skelliemancer has 120 skill points tied up in Raise Skeleton, Skeleton Mastery, Corpse Explosion, and Revives (maxing Revives is more for the life time boost than anything else... I've NEVER seen a Revive killed in battle except by Iron Maiden).
I've usually put another 20+ in Curses (1 in each with extra points in Dim Vision to silence ranged attackers). That's 150 points (level 75) with the quest awards going into Clay Golem, Golem Mastery, Summon Resists, Bone Armor, Teeth, and you want the skelliemancer to build Poison Nova?

Do you do this after level 75, or ahead of some of these skills (or instead of them)?

I haven't found that my assertion: "the skelliemancer build has been crippled by the skellie life Nerf" to be wrong, what I think is happening is that the definition of a skelliemancer is changing because of the Nerf.  I'm now asking people how they build skelliemancers...

What I'm guessing is that successful Necro builders are building Poison/Bone necro's with skellies/revives as a secondary assist.

[Tophead]

öhm skilling revives is useless, with ~70 +skills u dont need any points there better skill the skellmages, the passives skilsl has to be ksilled, bone tree is useles, cause of dam to low and to many points ofr syns curses u only need ad and lr, ull get lr from doll stash but u can skill it if u want.bone armor is for the last skillpoints golem you'll never need only claygolem for beginn.
ce max of course
thats the imo best way to play an skelliemancer.

[SyGyS]

@ tophead
it's not true bone skills aren't that bad as u said i really like them, and it doesn't matter if u skill poisen nova or bone spear...

[webwalker]

öhm skilling revives is useless, with ~70 +skills u dont need any points there

Where in Chaos Empire do you get 70 +skills?

Between hat, ammy, ring, ring, gloves, armor, belt, boots, weapon, shield, and inventory that's +6 or +7 skills *per* *location* *average*!

better skill the skellmages, the passives skilsl has to be ksilled,

What are the passive skills for a Necromancer you're talking about here?  Skeleton Mastery and Summon Resist are the only passives I can think of... and 1 point with +70 skills should get pleanty of summon resistance from 1 hard point.  Skeleton Mastery should be max'd regardless (we agree there).

bone tree is useles, cause of dam to low and to many points ofr syns

Too low? Yes it's 90 points to max teeth, bone spirit, and bone spear, but those then are rather heavy hitters!  Likewise the poison skills take 90 points to max because of synergies.

curses u only need ad and lr, ull get lr from doll stash but u can skill it if u want.

I have found Dim Vision to be a life-saver, especially in Act 5 vs the "guest monster" archers and spear-throwers, and Confusion and Attract have good uses.  Decrepify is unequalled for fast monsters and bosses. How many dolls must you put in the doll stash to get Lower Resists?  Are you thinking ladder builds, or SP?

bone armor is for the last skillpoints golem you'll never need only claygolem for beginn.
ce max of course
thats the imo best way to play an skelliemancer.

OK, I think we're talking slightly different things: *building* a skelliemancer (me) vs *completing* a well-built skelliemancer (you).
A guide should show *building* as well as *finishing* in my opinion.

[countdracula]

you get lower resist with only about 100-150 dolls in most cases. That not too difficult, but getting the 1 farn for setting 1 skill in lower resist should be far easier.

[Tophead]

öhm skilling revives is useless, with ~70 +skills u dont need any points there

Where in Chaos Empire do you get 70 +skills?

Between hat, ammy, ring, ring, gloves, armor, belt, boots, weapon, shield, and inventory that's +6 or +7 skills *per* *location* *average*!

better skill the skellmages, the passives skilsl has to be ksilled,

What are the passive skills for a Necromancer you're talking about here?  Skeleton Mastery and Summon Resist are the only passives I can think of... and 1 point with +70 skills should get pleanty of summon resistance from 1 hard point.  Skeleton Mastery should be max'd regardless (we agree there).

bone tree is useles, cause of dam to low and to many points ofr syns

Too low? Yes it's 90 points to max teeth, bone spirit, and bone spear, but those then are rather heavy hitters!  Likewise the poison skills take 90 points to max because of synergies.

curses u only need ad and lr, ull get lr from doll stash but u can skill it if u want.

I have found Dim Vision to be a life-saver, especially in Act 5 vs the "guest monster" archers and spear-throwers, and Confusion and Attract have good uses.  Decrepify is unequalled for fast monsters and bosses. How many dolls must you put in the doll stash to get Lower Resists?  Are you thinking ladder builds, or SP?

bone armor is for the last skillpoints golem you'll never need only claygolem for beginn.
ce max of course
thats the imo best way to play an skelliemancer.

OK, I think we're talking slightly different things: *building* a skelliemancer (me) vs *completing* a well-built skelliemancer (you).
A guide should show *building* as well as *finishing* in my opinion.

+~70skill are realy easy.

first: +2 new uni charms +1 =+2skills
anii +5 = +7skils
htotcraft +5 = +12 skillz
nice nec wand + ~4-5 = = +16-17 skillz
full über set (ring, ringm, amu,,belt, boots, gloves, helmet all +7 (someof them are hard to reach, but there are many alternatives to get the same +skills) = 47 skill = 63-64 + skillz
coh in nex armor +4 = 67 - 64 skillz
some skillers...

übers are not needed u can use gotterdammerung or other items with lower number of skills, then u need more skillers.

passive skills i thought of skell mastery (max) reistance (1 poit) and bone armor (ok not realy passive but im sure u know what i mean, max)

i got lr with 94 dolls. just e few nromal cow runs without ice and searching with find potion. i thinking of a ladder build.

bone trees real damage is lwoer because u dont reach so much monster as with pnove, vs bosses its better

in the last point i can only agree

[Max-Trasher]

First of all i apologize for my bad english

@Tophead : You´re talking about your equip in Sp i guess .... in ladder hc ... most of the equip is not avalaible ...

At present time in these ladder, in hc no one have more than one or two pieces of all that ...

Unicharms : .. too count these Skills, you have to find them first ...
Anni : You have too had o good friend or walk all the way through hell to get one .... and +5 is not garatueed

Hoto+necwand (crafted) : first of all, can only use one af these, not both at the same time ... btw .... without Rune-gambling .....

Full Uber : .....no comment ....

GD : hmm ... sc or sp .... in HC, without uber-amu i need some res on my hat ..

And by all this you forgotten somrething .. Soulstones .... all 5 ... (joking)

And finally : IMHO no char shall get his very own skills from an item ....

[Tophead]

1. im talking about ladder char, as i said. not at present time in aldder.

unicharms u'll get just play the whole game, i found 1 of the two whily playing thorugh nm the other in hell.

ull get ur anni easy as necromancer with skell just palythrough hell and get em from clone u dont need it before.

sory i didnt mean nec wand, i meant nec-shield

über amu is not as rare as it should.

soulstones? see ur post^^