Topic: Melee Chars vs Ranged Chars

[Darkkatgirl]

For some of the non-german speaking forum users,  in one of the german forums there is a debate going on about the number of Ranged Characters used online opposed the number of Melee Characters used.

I also want to state that this is a positive post, do not flame, curse or whine about the mod in it please.

I also wanted to get some players opinions as to why they play either their melee or ranged characters online (or sp).

I believe several factors play into this choice however.

One of them is: Are you playing Hard Core or Regular?  Hardcore has ALWAYS been ranged favored due to the obvious.  Die once and its game over.

Some people say the monsters are too hard in CE's mod... I do not believe so.  Iron Maiden aside, the monsters are not tough but they just heal really really fast.  This is not a problem to melee characters as they tend to kill critters very fast. 

I think the biggest problem for Melee in the mod is the increased mob size.  In LoD melee had mob troubles but it wasnt that bad, in the mod however the mobs are almost x4 the size (not exact figure but its definitely doubled at least) making it harder for melee because melee characters never did have any good anti-swarm powers. 


The barb gets whirlwind (its ok but nothing like lets say Lightning fury)

The melee amazon has fend.... fend is broken and bugged beyond all hope (thanks to blizzard) and should be replaced with whirlwind to compensate.

The assassin has some pretty good antiswarm with charged up claw attacks.  But unless your a veteran at assassins, playing one can be confusing and difficult.

The paladin.... well his elemental auras are very weak in damage compared to other classes with similar skills (like a sorceress) and his zeal will get him killed (think strafe lock only with melee)

The Druid is like the assassin in some ways....  He can buff himself up with antiswarm elemental powers then shapeshift and open a can on someone (doesnt mean start a party for the german folk reading... long story for non-germans)

The sorceress is interesting... I havent played one much but I see so many types that she can do hardcore melee or ranged or just whatever.

The necromancer, is as tough as wet paper.  Sure bone armor helps but its no manashield/ice shield for def.  I thought with CE's addition with a Dagger specialization that more melee / poison necros would come into play but that was replaced with wand special....   His antiswarm is curses and summons. (similar to druid only without selfbuffs)

I think if classes like barbarian/necro/zon/pally would have better antiswarm skills with melee abilities, more people would gladly play a melee build on one.  I would love to play a sword wielding amazon myself ^.^

Also another factor that might be helping or hurting in the melee/ranged usage is what appears to be a modified def value for armor.  Im not sure what CE did with attack values and armor and all that, but some people might not be playing melee because of the low defense.  This can be avoided by using Rune Words but shouldn't have to soley use those to get good def.

But im sure CE would like to hear others opinions and thoughts on why you play a melee or ranged and what stops you from playing the other type.


Awesome mod keep up the good work Chaos!

[ChaosEmpire]

hi kat

thanks for the really good post
for the antiswarm part

post players forget a simple thing...there are some spells...with same effect, but different names
think of grim ward, howl the necro spell..dont remember the name for the moment

monster runs away...so..the mob is broken, and you can kill them much more safer

for the easter event, i run with a lvl30 barb with startup equip...ok..lvl 100bo..but 2 hits and i m dead..so..what is the reason for staying alive in cgs hardcore...howl..all normal monsters run away...those few champs...i runned away..
so running through those mobs without killing 1 (ok..thats also the bad hint for all dungeo rushers..but there are more champs )

the only thing to mention grim ward + howl on one char..pobably one of them..should be changed with another one

druid has critters, so i assume pala would be a nice one..necro with grim ward has much style, but also has critters
so...have fun discussing..

[Darkkatgirl]

I think your talking about Terror for Necro (curse that makes monsters flee).  As i stated before, necros have summons and curses (like terror or confuse) that really help with swarms.  Its their lack of tanking and offensive melee that I was conserned about for them as a melee build. 

Yes you can build just about anything with the right gear... but not everyone has 11 hours to spend on gambling with a lvl 92 char to get that gear nor should a char rely on Farnham's for extra skills (any build that depends on items or farnhams is a bad build imho)  Those two things should ENHANCE a character and build, not make or break it.

Paladins just need all the help they can get really.  Holy shield is a boon but the elemental auras just are too weak even with amped up levels.  the only other thing they have for fighting multiple enemies (other than auras) is Zeal which will get them killed faster than a naked spear using necro on diablo.

Druids I think are like Sorceress, very flexible and with the new gear with other class skills and doll box, can do anything. 

Barbs have whirlwind and a very weak shout (not SHOUT but a battle cry that does magic damage and maybe physical)  If its radius and damage output was increased, it would make barbs more playable (like a hammerdin) but that doesnt solve the melee issue with them.  Iron maiden hurts all melee as Disco Aura cripples every non-melee. 

Amazons just need their melee fixed,  their single melee attacks are very good its just her ONLY anitswarm is broken (thanks blizz!) You could give her zeal (closest thing to fiend) or whirlwind to fix that.

Assassins are like a weaker sorc for variation.  Only difference is you need more skill to pull off a successful assassin but once you master her abilities she can melee or ranged kill anything enmasse.

So I guess the biggest problem children would be Barb, Zon, and Pally (I dont like pally's but im sure someone... somewhere on ccc likes them :-p) 

On a side note, if people want to keep complaining about IM, give them something to complain about, make a IM aura (like Disco only it casts IM) and only put it in LR and CGS.

[webwalker]

Barb: double-throw and war cries makes a pretty effective character, but that's not melee specifically.  It is however safe from IM.

Zon I have always built as a strafer with Lightning Fury as a backup.  I've gotten HellDone before.

We should build a successful pally team.  Sniper and a fist/hammer pally.

[Chestainer]

fend is not bugged. Its just a rumor that comes from the fact that she can´t attack while she is using here evade-skills. You really should not put any points in there if you want to play an fendzone.


I would agree that the main reason why most players prefer ranged chars is the number of monsters in CE. Not because you die all the time as melee but because it takes ages to clear only one level in dungeon if your targeting one enemy at a time like with poison dagger. More damage won´t help if your already doing 1-hit-kills.

I think new tristram and seven are areas which are good for melee chars. Less and tougher monster that can only be killed in a reasonable amount of time with cb.

[Darkkatgirl]

Fend bug is not a rumor, with no points in evade dodge etc as per CE's mod if you get hit while fending all your other "attacks" miss.

This has been a known issue (even blizzard devs know and admit to this bug, but don't have time or will to fix it) for a long time.

[bdpf]

guys

There is twop weapon sets you can equipe at the same time.
One ranged, one melee, or are you playing Diablo?

Now that I don't have your attention, all Characters have some form of ranged attact.
Some better the others, based on level and skill with a weapon or spell.

It is the melee attact the some have a real problem.
ZONs have poor sword & club skill, but have good javain skills and spells that are deadly in melee. The lighting spells are a massive killers to a mob. When bow & arrow with flee bonous do not break them up. Kat the find skill is much over rated and zons could loss it for some thing eles, hint CE.

The Doll Stash & Teddy help wth skill and spell lack, in all character types.

SORCs do lack good melee skills with weapons, spells can only do so much and can be interupted when hit. An extra fast, high damage sword with a good shield and teddy skills mkaes a Sorc harder to hit and allows more realiable spell casting. Sorcs still need help with weapon skills but they can be fun to play, having  limitintations.

How much fun is it to have masive one hit kills of mobs. Sorcs have this with their ranged spells. It's mobbings that can hurt. Try your / test character builds in SP with a players setting of 19. ((SMILE)) Then post of your limitations or great powers.

The other characters have simlar problems, you just have to find the right combination of weapons, skills and spells. Thei is th rub that makes CE interesting and fun to play, SP or On-Line. SP is much harder than On-Line where a group can work & fight together.

@CE WE NEED A WAY OF MAKING MERCS BETTER.  A way to aquire a character shadow / clone for SP players, not for on-line. CE you know I posted about this before.
THANKS FOR EASTER EGE PUZZLE.

@darkkatgirl & getfuzzy
Have you sent CE your new quest blurbs? Ha Ha Ha!

bdpf

[ChaosEmpire]

you already have a really strong merc, and also everyone is able to summon a vally...
shadowmaster wont work with every char..and crashes the game, cause it tries to use skills, not being able to use...

[Darkkatgirl]

Not to get off topic but someone posted idea of using a shadow warrior (the one that only uses your currently second skill hot button).  I wouldnt give all a shadow warrior, sins need something to temp people to play them

Lightning and poison are always mob killers, but funny enough those seem to be the most common "immune" (cold being a close third) on enemies (and doors if you ever played act 5). 

As stated in a prievious post,  melee takes forever to clear an area with one on one killing.  I dont think melee should have a "lightning fury" for mass kills but something better than one on one for lets say a dagger necro.  Even if it was 5-10 enemies would be outstanding.   Doesnt seem fair for melee to have to fight one at a time when ranged or spell casters can target 30+ critters is all im saying.

[Fenris]

yeah, but for that reason a fo-sorc makes about 8k with her orb and a melee sorc makes more than 100k with one hit

[Chestainer]

@darkkatgirl

Sorry that I have to get back to the fendzone-subject. But I really have to defend her. Have you ever tried fend without evade-skills ?

I´ve played two fendzones to level 93+ and the bug died not bother me at all. Even wrote a guide :-). So if there really is a bug it is one of that kind where you watch your zone closely and still can´t really tell.

She does sometimes not hit if you use  to attack because of the way diablo is cheating with monster positions to make bad pings more bearable. But thats the same thing with zeal.

I´m always skeptical if someone cites (blizzard devs) without proper reference. There are so many rumors in Diablo:

You get less exp in baalruns if you kill minions with meteor.

There are more upper eggshells than lower ones.

You find less runes with high ammounts of mf.

If you kill a monster and find something good you have to kill other monsters befor the first monster drops something good for you again. (most absurd)

Diablo players seem to have no sense for probabilities.  :-)

[Crimson_brilliance010]

@ darkkatgirl i like pallys lol

@ bdpf yes you can work in groups but everyone doesnt play at once and even then its hard to find a game that suits your needs

[chas_smith]

I am vary new and at the time 7:24 am vary sleepy .......... but I have to say this kat ...... you look pritty dame good lol ( I hope this will not get my head cut off) but if that is your pic wow thumbs up



........ as for melle or ranged I think it depends on your playing style I love ranged and I find it a bit saseyer to stay alive

[ChaosEmpire]

btw...as far as i m informed katherine has a boy friend...but i never saw a woman, not being happy about compliments

[chas_smith]

he he yah but being the new guy in the group I have to trade lightly and be cafull never know if a hammer is on its way sometimes ppl get upset ovet stuff I dont even get

[Darkkatgirl]

Yeah that is me and I also took a few other goofy looking pics of myself (like sticking my tongue out at the digicam etc)

I just think that there should be no difference between melee and ranged other than (im close to enemy or I'm far away)  damage and abilities should be even as possible. 

[webwalker]

If range and melee damage is the same, we should always fight ranged since return damage is smaller (melee enemy can't hurt us).  So, melee damage should be significantly greater.

[ChaosEmpire]

with cb it is really high..
i already have killed monsters without a weapon in cgs...with only 1-2 times using zeal

[Darkkatgirl]

@ Webby

I wasnt referring to the physical attacks but rather the special abilities they possess and possible number of targets they can affect or kill.