Topic: Decyphering the Doll Stash

[ChaosEmpire]

the guide has been removed, cause of being worthless with current and upcoming versions, cause it only rflects the behaviour under a special cicumstance...
also in 764 and up, the recipes have been modified a lot..so that you have dependencies on time, char and more...

[sualk12]

@ Steve Brammer
 I have always thought and i think Chaos is with me in this opinion that duping anything in the CE-Mod is frowned at here in this Forum. I know that there is no possibility to stop anyone from doing it in Single Player but i think it is not something to be proud of and is not to be used to write guides with information gathered from duping.

Just my 2 cents

[webwalker]

...duping anything in the CE-Mod is frowned on ... it is not something to be proud of

Analyzing the elements of the game and reporting on them is worlds different from 'duping'.

I appreciated Steve's work, and wished that the results had been published months ago, and would enjoy having a similar guide soon after the next release.

I would like to save dolls that increase cold damage for my zon or throw-barb, and resists for my characters that need them (zon and assassin), while boosting other things according to other character's needs.  Lower Resists is something that my necro doesn't need, but skills boosts are in desparate short supply more than any other class.

Perhaps there is for some people a love of game elements where there is an unknown and un-knowable mystery, like you never know what's gonna pop out of an Evil Urn.  I, for one, like being able to build a character towards particular results.

[ChaosEmpire]

the doll stash is a special mysterious item..and should be like that...
move the stash around all your char...so you can easy putevery doll you find in it..and every char will have a benefit..

[sualk12]

@webwalker

So u do think that getting 105 ancient kaa dolls is normal in the game and not at all related to copying the character in sp?

[Kano]

Spam alert:

I just think Steve has put a lot of effort into finding a tiny piece of the Doll stash mystery. That should be appreciated.
If anyone has criticism, it should be kept in a constructive manner. The sole purpose of duping is to cheat the game. Steve is not cheating the game, but he's just trying to put a little science into a piece of mystery.

...my 2 cents.

[Olfmo]

but he actually wrote in his guide (which i read when it was online) that he duped dolls in sp to do the tests

besides, if chaos changed the recipes again it's useless anyway

[webwalker]

@olfmo and @sualk12: research is not cheating the game.  We can research a build by making characters in Single Play with the -act5 switch; we can research the puppenkeist by making a character Read Only and giving the same doll into the 'keist many times.  In both cases, the point is to find out how things work.

@all, Steve and I have reached a peaceable agreement with CE (without having to ask him): We do things his way.  He doesn't want the study published to the community, so it won't be done.  We'll leave it a mystery.

[hamil]

thats a nice idea and steve ur work was nice tho and i think to let the puppenkiste in a mysterious light it would be much exciting for everyone who is using it like me ( just put in every doll u find) and then everybody will be happy when he will get a new mod on his Puppenkiste.
A friend of mine / SSX-Ender has 2100 dolls on his chest now and he got a bunch of mods like xp and amp and bo and so on and many other useful things

greetz ham and dont reveal too much of the truth because it is sometimes scary

[Olfmo]

@brian: why do you call it research?

a quote from the guide:

Q: Why don’t you have doll benefits up to 1000 or more for all of the subcategories and up to the doll stash maximum in general?

A: Because I’m not a masochist – well not too much of one.  All of this information was obtained by experimentation, not hacking into the game code.  It took many hours of duping dolls in single player and cubing them into test doll stashes to collect all of this information.

correct me if i am wrong but in my eyes he admitted to have duped the dolls... and that's clearly something we DON'T want

[Tamttai]

and he did so offline if got him right so whats the problem ? dont tell me downloading characters from the last ladder and putting their items on other offline characters isnt duping in a more global way (cuz everyone is downloading and thus these items r multiplied)

[Olfmo]

first of all there's a difference because chaos uploaded the file with the chars, but chaos always said duping in ce is not tolerated (whether in mp or in sp)

also with duped dolls you won't get the same results as with legal found ones, so the guide is nearly useless

[webwalker]

@brian: why do you call it research?

Because that is clearly what it was.
The difference is on the one hand, study the game to find out how its mechanics work, and on the other, to defeat, bypass, or cheapen the challenge of the game.

If you fill up a stash with 16000 dolls at level 36 just so you have an easier time of playing the game, that's duping to bypass the challenge of the game.  Finding out (the key is the intention) what happens if... is research, not hacking, cheating, duping.

Since Chaos has said explicitly that the doll stash is intended to be a mystery object, further research is abandoned.  Since I don't imagine anybody having the time to build 100+ characters to put *only* anya dolls in the character named "xXxAnYaDoLlSxXx", and ... (etc), I don't imagine this research will be done any other way, either.

[Olfmo]

just by calling the duping research it doesn't get better... so i don't get your point

if somebody would hack into the game files just to reveal some secret recipes (i am sure some exist, but that's not the point^^) you could call that research too but it would still be cheating

i agree with you that the doll stash research is very hard and probably is not possible without duping, but we gotta deal with that...

[Bubonous]

I seem to be lucky today to be able to post in my own thread.

As many other people would tell you, having these sort of discussions through PM is usually the way to go.  We may want to consider that option.

but he actually wrote in his guide (which i read when it was online) that he duped dolls in sp to do the tests

FYI, I “duped” by backing up and restoring save files in single player, not by using some third party program while on the server.  The “duped” dolls have not and will not be used by my regular characters.  ChaosEnergy created ChaosEmpire by “hacking” D2LOD v1.10.  People created attack speed, faster cast, and faster hit recovery breakpoint tables and other such collections of technical information by “hacking” the game to make it run in a debug mode and reveal what happens frame by frame, “hacking” the game to make it run differently to test an equipment modifier more easily, or “hacking” into the game to read the text files.  There is a big difference between creating dupes purely for experimentation and creating dupes for use in trades or to sell on d2items.com, just as there is a big difference between hacking into the game to create a mod and hacking into the game to create a cheat or bot to use on BNet.  Furthermore, copying and pasting save files on my computer does not violate the EULA; setting up the game to run on a server other than BNet does.  People in glass houses should be careful about throwing stones.

besides, if chaos changed the recipes again it's useless anyway

also with duped dolls you won't get the same results as with legal found ones, so the guide is nearly useless

Working hard to dissuade people from getting a copy of the guide, are we?  Certainly the Doll Stash Guide was worse than useless for keeping how the doll stash works secret.  Had Chaos told me he wanted it kept a secret rather than continuing to post “hints” that were really misdirections, the guide would never have been posted.  Now that I know he wants it a secret, it shall not be reposted or distributed by me.

Anyone who calls duping for the sole purpose of finding out how the game works wrong and then trades for high runes or jewels on BNet and/or uses character guides or web site references other than Blizzard’s site that include IAS, FHR, FCR, or other such technical information or God forbid actually mods the game is being hypocritical, whether they realize it or not.

Just my 2 cents.