Topic: How to Improve the Original D2/LOD Sets

[webwalker]

Except when the ladder is brand new, and anything is great becauset the alternative is nothing, most of the original sets are never used.
What to suggest for these sets?  Sockets?  Defense/level? Damage (of what type)/level? damage reduction of some type(s)?  Requirements reduced 50%? On B.Net D2/LOD Sigon's was an excellent set, and partial sets (gauntlets, belt and boots) were a Good Find. Now... the parts are rare (because of so many other options), hard to gamble until they're WAY past useful for the character gambling them, and quickly surpassed by mediocre tempered rares.

Let the suggestions begin!

Angelic
Arcanna
Arctic
Berserkers
Cathans
Civerbs
Cleglaw
Death's
Hsarus
Infernal
Iratha
Isenhart
Milabrega's
Sanders
Sigon
Tancred
Vidala

[bdpf]

@Webwalker

Frist I play SP, not on-line YET!
AND play as a generalist. ( I use all skills, not just one type, of a charactoer)

With the shared stash / personnel stash, set items are easier to collect for new charactors.
That is if you casn find the one last missing item. <GRIN>

As for the orginal D2/LOD sets, it's the last missing item of the set that ruins thier usfullness.

Take the Arcanna set, the amulet is the the hardest to find. In all my time / years playing d2 / d2/lod &
mods I have found less than ten ( 10 ) amulets. This is the main problem with all sets. D2/LOD or CE share this problem. <GRIN>

The question should be how do we make the sets easier to complete to be usefull. <GRIN>

A set does you no good unless you can complete it. Tradding or buying a missing piece is out of the question for a lot of players.

As you might of guessed by now this is a pet pivee of mine.

So my main sujestion is to some how increase the drop rate of those last missing pieces of the low end sets.

Second sujestion / question, wish...

Please make sets for or more usable for the mercs (((rougues))) and remove the class restrictions on them for the mercs. Of coarse it would be nice if the mercs could use all the skills or spelles of the sets. This could be limited to single play if it too strong for on-line play.
Of coarse this is probibly not possible to do.


OPS! Though of a third sujestion;
A shield skill for ZONS, for the shield and shield sets, like the Paladin shield skill. Maybe not as strong,,,,, can't make the zon IM..<ha ha> Be nice if rougue could use javilain and shield, at same time. he he he
@Webwalker &  Mrbad151

You guys have been kicking the set problem around now for several days, looking for sujestions.

The fists of heaven are nice, what ever the damage. (smile)

All my barbs / ideas are from a SP view. I hope the spark some ideas for you. The lack of a printer keeps me from comparing sets side by side. So all of my ideas are from remembered playing experence. <grin> Mostly ZON & SORC. I guess I just like to reach out and touch monsters. Da remembered exprence, da whats dat... (Old and fuzzy brain cells) "Druid wind skills are neat and murdeous in higher levels.

CYA
tks for great mod
bdpf
(spell checker stil broke)

ps; noticed in the past that the set item's def vairies with defferent drops of the same item.   ? ? ? ?

[MrBad151]

The two biggest problems with these sets are that; one, like bdpf said, there is always one piece that is hard to get and by the time you do complete the set it's no longer useful.  With shared stashes this isn't such a big deal for your 5th or 6th character.. but then the second problem comes into play..

The second problem is shared by all the sets, not just these, the fact that unique and rare items are often a LOT more powerful.  Unique items are often very powerful and have a rather low lvl requirement.  At the higher end of the game rare items often eclipse the best of sets.

Fixing these set would require one of two things.. either making the pieces rediculously common or a change the mind set of how powerful sets are.

Personally I think a completed set should be more powerful than the same number of rare/unique pieces. 

[bdpf]

Rebutle; / new sugestion;

Make rare, unquie & eletite sets of the same name into sets, hard to get or use...da

Maybe a dumb sugestion
bdpf

[webwalker]

That's the point of this thread: what should we change/add to the OldSets to make the sufficiently useful that they're not just dilutants in the gamble screen and pollutants on the ground?

I suggest each of us adopting a third of the sets and figuring what item, partial set, and complete set bonuses to add so that the set is useful.  The big "competetion" is not uniques, since they have fixed level requirements that put them out of the range of beginning characters, it's the tempered rares.

It's pretty easy to gamble the complete Hsarus set.  Why use it when we can get +2 pally skills on a pally shield, temper it, and use it at level 3?  What hat will compare with a +2 skills circlet tempered and wearable at level 16?  Tempered +2 ammys and +1all/+1skill rings wearable at level 1 trump and trash any set with an ammy or ring in it.  As much as this is me cutting my own throat, tempering should not reduce level requirement by more than 1/2 making +2 ammys level 33 and +1all/+1skill rings level 7 or 14(?memory error here?)

Alternatively, Cathan's Traps would need a full set bonus of +4 skills to equal the ring and ammy we can gamble and temper.
Partial set bonus ideas?
Arctic set (I can't check what the set does not while at work, these are thought of as additions to what's there)
        +3 cold arrow +3 fire arrow -50% requirements and 5 sockets on the bow.
        +20%IAS +5% life leach +5% mana leach -50% requirements on the gloves
        Replenish life, mana and Cannot Be Frozen on the armor, change resists from +10 to +20.
        +10 dex +3 bow/xbow skills (not amazon only) on the belt.
        50%FRW 25%IAS +5 all attributes for 2 items
        +20% reststance to all 25%IAS +10 all attributes on 3 items
        +2 all skills 25%IAS +20 all resists +20 all attributes level 3 might aura when full set equipped.

So: @bdpf & MrBad151: look at the list of D2 "original" sets, adopt 1/3 of them each, and tweak them with partial and full set bonuses so that you'd like to use  them, and post your suggestions.  I'll do the rest in my copius spare time.

[PQCE]

hm, i have a suggestion for death´s guard (sash). its a 2 slot belt, could it changed to a 3 slot-belt like belt or heavy belt? the cnbf on the belt is a need thing for melees and i think its the only item before you reach lvl 45 (raven) with that

the gloves from sigons and deaths set get 30% ias with 2 items. tempering gloves gives 40-60 ias. rise the ias setbonus up to 70 or 80 ias.

[webwalker]

Please list the whole set and the bonus changes/additions you recommend for the set items, partial bonuses, and the whole set.

[PQCE]

Death's Disguise

Death's Hand
Leather Gloves
Defense: 1 - 1
Durability: 12
Level Required: 6
Resist Poison 50%
Poison Length Reduced by 75%
Color on char: Light Red
Color in inventory: Light Red
2 Setitems
30% Increased Attack Speed change to 60-80 ias

Death's Guard
Sash sash is a 2-slot-belt, change it to a 3-slot-belt, like Belt or Heavy Belt
Defense: 1 - 1
Durability: 12
Level Required: 6
20 to Defense
Cannot be Frozen
Color on char: Light Red
Color in inventory: Light Red
2 Setitems
All Resistances 15%

Death's Touch
War Sword
One-Hand Damage: 8 - 20
Required Dexterity: 45
Required Strength: 71
Level Required: 6
25% Enhanced Damage
8% Life stolen per hit
8% mana steal
Color on char: Light Red
Color in inventory: Light Red
2 Setitems
25 - 75 to Cold Damage
+10 minimum damage (2 set items)
50% Deadly Strike (whole set)
+2 max damage per level (whole set)


Setbonus
2 Setitems
16% Life stolen per hit
Full Set
40% Bonus to Attack Rating
10 to Minimum Damage
All Resistances 25%


Sigon's Complete Steel

Sigon's Gage
Gauntlets
Defense: 5 - 6
Durability: 24
Required Strength: 60
Level Required: 6
10 to Strength
20 to Attack Rating
Color on char: White
Color in inventory: White
2 Setitems
30% Increased Attack Speed change to 60-80 ias

/€
edited webwalkers suggestions for the sword

[webwalker]

Thanks for the Death's Set write-up.
For the sword to be more desireable I'd add
8% mana steal
+10 minimum damage (2 set items instead of full set)
50% Deadly Strike (whole set)
+2 max damage per level (whole set)

For the sash to be desireable in spite of beign a sash I'd add
+200% Enhanced Defense
+10 defense
+10 str
+17% FHR
+15% resistance to all (2 set items)
+30 life (2 set items)
+5 poison/level/2 seconds  (full set)

(@pqce: what do you think on these changes?  If you agree you can modify your own post or indicate to me to do so.)

[ChaosEmpire]

hi brian, as moderator, you can directly correct the post above, if he aggrees to your changes..

(MadMod: Thanks; I'll ask if he agrees, and if so, one of us will do that)

[arcadians]

you could make those sets easier to find and gamble  or the otheres a wee bit harder to find   something simple

[PQCE]

hm, i dont understand what do you mean with this sentence: "For the sash to be desireable in spite of beign a sash I'd add"
Do you let it a sash or change it to a 3-slot-belt? (but i think with your changes its no problem leaves it a sash)

hm, the "+200% Enhanced Defense" on the belt will be only 2 def

i like your other changes for the belt

[webwalker]

hm, i dont understand what do you mean with this sentence: "For the sash to be desireable in spite of beign a sash I'd add"
Do you let it a sash or change it to a 3-slot-belt? (but i think with your changes its no problem leaves it a sash)

That's the correct meaning: Leave it a sash, and make it desireable.  That's the kind of action I'm asking for all the old sets.

hm, the "+200% Enhanced Defense" on the belt will be only 2 def

until it's upgraded to a Demonhide Sash...  Something to consider for all old set work-overs.

i like your other changes for the belt

I'll update the suggestion and compact the thread.

[bdpf]

@webwalker

Two old sets that could be changed / blended together are Death's Desguise & Berserker's Arsenal;

For both of these sets, bump up the defence rate. With both sets equiped on a barb, blend the set bounses.

Example; Death's Deguie gloves and sash equiped with Berserker's Arsenal and second axe [(2) axes, could give
Full Set
40% Bonus to Attack Rating
10 to Minimum Damage
All Resistances 25%
bounse of the death disguise.]
The big thing for a earily barb would be the double swing and double throw skill. That is if the axes could be made throwable.

And with DD BA sets using the deaths deguise swords add 1 or 2 pts to double swing. The use of two like weapons with the combined sets would be needed to trigger the added skill points<GRIN> And add one more item to each set.

I will let you balance the skills and bounces. You are better at it than me.

It would be like making a biger new set, with more vairations. Beserkers' Death Guise

                                          Death's Disguise
Death's Hand
Leather Gloves
Defense: 1 - 1
Durability: 12
Level Required: 6
Resist Poison 50%
Poison Length Reduced by 75%
Color on char: Light Red
Color in inventory: Light Red
2 Setitems
30% Increased Attack Speed


    Death's Guard
Sash
Defense: 1 - 1
Durability: 12
Level Required: 6
20 to Defense
Cannot be Frozen
Color on char: Light Red
Color in inventory: Light Red
2 Setitems
All Resistances 15%


    Death's Touch
War Sword
Two swords euuiped +1 or 2 to double swing skill.
One-Hand Damage: 8 - 20
Required Dexterity: 45
Level Required: 6
25% Enhanced Damage
8% Life stolen per hit
Color on char: Light Red
Color in inventory: Light Red
2 Setitems
25 - 75 to Cold Damage

   

Setbonus
2 Setitems
16% Life stolen per hit
Full Set
40% Bonus to Attack Rating
10 to Minimum Damage
All Resistances 25%


                                                          Berserker's Arsenal
    Berserker's Headgear
Helm
Defense: 6 - 7
Durability: 24
Required Strength: 26
Level Required: 3
15 to Defense
Resist Fire 25%
Color on char: Dark Red
Color in inventory: Dark Red
2 Setitems
16 to Attack Ratting (Based on Character Level)

   

    Berserker's Hauberk
Splint Mail
Defense: 36 - 38
Durability: 30
Required Strength: 51
Level Required: 3
Magic Damage Reduced by 2
1 to Barbarian Skill Levels
Color on char: Dark Red
Color in inventory: Dark Red
2 Setitems
3 Defense (Based on Character Level)

   

    Berserker's Hatchet
Double Axe
Two axes equiped 1 or 2 to double swing or double throw skill. Make axes throwable?
One-Hand Damage: 5 - 13
Level Required: 3
30% Bonus to Attack Rating
5% Mana stolen per hit
Color on char: Dark Red
Color in inventory: Dark Red
2 Setitems
50% Enhanced Damage

   

Setbonus
2 Setitems
50 to Life
Full Set
Poison Length Reduced by 75%
16 to Minimum Poison Damage
32 to Maximum Poison Damage
Poison Duration 0 seconds
75 to Defense


Thats all for now, Have to work some more on the house.

bdpf

[hamil]

i read very nice suggestions here and i would say if u use sigons it is quite a nice set for level 6 because u have the possibility that u can use 2 tempered rings one tempered ammy and a tempered Weapon^^

greetz ham

nice work brian and nice playing yesterday^^

[Lyc]

Hello.

I have a suggestion to the Milabegra Regalia set. Changes are marked in red.

Milabrega's Orb
Kite Shield
Defense: 6 - 7
Damage: 2 - 5
Durability: 30
Required Strength: 47
Level Required: 17
20% Better Chance to Getting Magic Items
25 to Defense
+1 to Paladin skills
Color on char: Dark Blue
Color in inventory: Dark Blue
2 Setitems
50 to Life
+20 to Mana
3 Setitems
50% Enhanced Defense change to +50 defense
4 Setitems
+1 to Zeal (oskill) (Would change the levelrequirments of the shield at full set to 18. Is it possible?)

   

    Milabrega's Rod
War Scepter change it into a long sword...okok, i´m a fanatic sword-fan
One-Hand Damage: 10 - 17
Level Required: 17
1 to Paladin Skill Levels
50% Enhanced Damage
2 to Light Radius
Color on char: Dark Blue
Color in inventory: Dark Blue
2 Setitems:
+100 Enhanced Damage
+5% Lifeleech
3 Setitems
Damage +40-50
4 Setitems
+50 Ias
   

    Milabrega's Diadem
Crown
Defense: 10 - 18
Durability: 50
Required Strength: 55
Level Required: 17
15 to Life+30 to Life
15 to Mana+30 to Mana
Color on char: Dark Blue
Color in inventory: Dark Blue
2 Setitems
Resist Cold 40%
Resist Fire 40%
4 Setitems:
Resist Lightning 40%
Resist Poisen 40%
+20 Defense

   

    Milabrega's Robe
Ancient Armor
Defense: 87 - 93
Durability: 60
Required Strength: 100
Level Required: 17
Attacker Takes Damage of 3a little bit...useless. Change it to "Attacker Takes Damage of 10".
Damage Reduced by 2 hm... Damage Reduced by 8 I suppose
-30% Requirments
socket(4)
Color on char: Dark Blue
Color in inventory: Dark Blue
2 Setitems
100% Enhanced Defense
+1 to Paladin Skills
3 Setitems
+1 to Defense per charlevel
4 Setitems
+1 to all skills
All resist +10%
Magic Resist +10%

   

Setbonus
2 Setitems
75 to Attack Rating
+10 ias
3 Setitems
125 to Attack Rating
Resist all 10%
Full Set
16% Life stolen per hit
2 to Paladin Skill Levels
10% Mana stolen per hit
Resist Poison 15%<---Delete this stat.
lv.1 might aura when equipped.

I hoped, it is not overpowered

and sry for my terrible english...

[Bubonous]

My suggestion:
Fix tempering so that it does NOT remove level requirements.  Without tempering it is already true that established players have a much easier time than new players with low level characters.  Tempering so that characters can wear a bunch of high level gear at very low levels unbalances the game.  If low level sets are "improved" to the point where they compare with high level rares that have been tempered, then the later sets and uniques start to become pointless.  Item balancing becomes worse and not better.

Once the tempering issues are fixed then the new low level sets can have their power scaled down to be competitive and not better than the old sets.  The old sets can also be boosted back up to the stats they had a few patches ago.  For example, Sigon's set used to have much better defense and blocking.  Perhaps people no longer use it because it has been overly nerfed.

In general, having uniques and sets give bonuses that one cannot get otherwise strikes me as the way to go.

[webwalker]

I'd opine that the old sets aren't used because you can't find bad enough Rare items such that the tempered Rares are a poorer choice than the corresponding set items.

If the level-reduce effect of tempered rares went away or went down by half, then the old sets would be more desireable, but the new sets would be more desireable.

Since the monsters are tougher (e.g. random unbreakable immunities, Disco, "players13" as base difficulty, etc) I'd suggest re-working the old sets to be in line with the new sets (if tempering no longer wipes off level requirements) and in line with mediocre tempered rares for the individual items, and in line with excellent tempered rares when the partial and full set bonuses come in, if the level-eliminating effect of tempered rares stays as is.